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Post by roxxstar on Jan 20, 2009 12:24:43 GMT -6
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Post by Saggitariutt Jefferspin (ith) on Jan 20, 2009 12:29:24 GMT -6
I have hope.
However I am not treating him as a savior as some already seem to be doing. I understand the historical significance...but the bottom line is performance. We shall see.
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Post by Saggitariutt Jefferspin (ith) on Jan 20, 2009 12:30:35 GMT -6
and yes, even if you're an Obama hater, you have to admit, dude can give a speech. He's certainly got charisma.
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Post by idrinkthereforeiam on Jan 20, 2009 13:25:08 GMT -6
I have hope. However I am not treating him as a savior as some already seem to be doing. I understand the historical significance...but the bottom line is performance. We shall see. I'm in the same boat. I still believe he will just be another President. However, I do understand the history that has been made... just sayin |
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Post by roxxstar on Jan 20, 2009 14:13:05 GMT -6
We'll see what he actually does, but for the moment I am a believer.
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Post by roxxstar on Jan 20, 2009 14:19:20 GMT -6
Some quotes from the speech I really enjoyed:
"On this day, we gather because we have chosen hope over fear, unity of purpose over conflict and discord."
"They saw America as bigger than the sum of our individual ambitions; greater than all the differences of birth or wealth or faction."
"We will restore science to its rightful place, and wield technology's wonders to raise health care's quality and lower its cost. We will harness the sun and the winds and the soil to fuel our cars and run our factories. And we will transform our schools and colleges and universities to meet the demands of a new age. All this we can do. And all this we will do."
"What the cynics fail to understand is that the ground has shifted beneath them - that the stale political arguments that have consumed us for so long no longer apply. The question we ask today is not whether our government is too big or too small, but whether it works - whether it helps families find jobs at a decent wage, care they can afford, a retirement that is dignified. Where the answer is yes, we intend to move forward. Where the answer is no, programs will end. And those of us who manage the public's dollars will be held to account - to spend wisely, reform bad habits, and do our business in the light of day - because only then can we restore the vital trust between a people and their government."
"The success of our economy has always depended not just on the size of our Gross Domestic Product, but on the reach of our prosperity; on our ability to extend opportunity to every willing heart - not out of charity, but because it is the surest route to our common good."
"For we know that our patchwork heritage is a strength, not a weakness. We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus - and non-believers. We are shaped by every language and culture, drawn from every end of this Earth; and because we have tasted the bitter swill of civil war and segregation, and emerged from that dark chapter stronger and more united, we cannot help but believe that the old hatreds shall someday pass; that the lines of tribe shall soon dissolve; that as the world grows smaller, our common humanity shall reveal itself; and that America must play its role in ushering in a new era of peace."
I especially enjoy that last section.
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Post by NotMyKid on Jan 20, 2009 14:45:24 GMT -6
I have hope. However I am not treating him as a savior as some already seem to be doing. I understand the historical significance...but the bottom line is performance. We shall see. I'm in the same boat. I still believe he will just be another President. However, I do understand the history that has been made... just sayin Only time will tell. |
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Post by hawkeyedug on Jan 20, 2009 17:32:52 GMT -6
Don't take this the wrong way but he will be a failure.
He has been so overly hyped that he can't possibly judged a success against those impossible expectations. Not to say he won't be a good president, he just has the deck stacked against him. I am cautiously optimistic.
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Post by TBELL on Jan 20, 2009 18:09:23 GMT -6
Don't take this the wrong way but he will be a failure. He has been so overly hyped that he can't possibly judged a success against those impossible expectations. Not to say he won't be a good president, he just has the deck stacked against him. I am cautiously optimistic. Almost like some of the "over-hyped" football gods that get spoken about on the message boards these days. Meaning recruits. |
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Post by hawkeyedug on Jan 20, 2009 18:19:26 GMT -6
Almost like some of the "over-hyped" football gods that get spoken about on the message boards these days. Meaning recruits. Exactly. The only person I can think of off the top of my head that lived up to the hype is Lebron. Everyone else falls flat one their face. |
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Post by thunderhawk on Jan 20, 2009 19:30:55 GMT -6
Well, one thing he's got going for him is the ice in his veins. That might be the most important attribute he possesses in these times.
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Post by iammrhawkeyes on Jan 20, 2009 19:46:14 GMT -6
Don't take this the wrong way but he will be a failure. He has been so overly hyped that he can't possibly judged a success against those impossible expectations. Not to say he won't be a good president, he just has the deck stacked against him. I am cautiously optimistic. The President and his team(along with the fawning networks of course) are responsible for the hype. It's his own fault if he doesn't live up to it. He ran a great campaign but all of the talk is finally over. While I hope The President is good for the country, I'm extremely skeptical of his fiscal policy(among other things). Out Dubyaing Dubya is no way for the economy to recover. I thought his speech delivery was average compared to some of the campaign moments and was complete with the usual presidential platitudes. We don't need to remake America. That's just plain nonsense. Tweak or fine tune. Sure. |
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Post by twinegarden on Jan 20, 2009 19:53:55 GMT -6
Im just looking forward to see what he will actually do to improve the state of the nation. So far all he has really accomplished is getting people excited that he is going to change everything for the better. As deep as our problems are getting I don't think alot of the people who are relentlessly tooting his horn understand how difficult of a time he will have getting this ship back on course. I still get the feeling alot of people are still high on Obamamania and giving the man a little too much credit for things he has yet to accomplish. I hope that he can bring everyone back to the comforts of a growing economy but don't expect it to happen too soon. We will see how excited everyone is when the DJIA dips below 7000 over the next few months.
Regardless, I voted for the man and hope nothing but the best for his success as a president.
Enjoy the night, President Obama, you have your work cut out for you once the confetti is done dropping.
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Post by NOTTHOR on Jan 20, 2009 21:24:55 GMT -6
The confetti is done dropping. The administration has a matter of days to figure out what they are going to do about the 2 largest banks in the country. 20% of the nation's deposit base and bank lending capacity are tied up in those banks. Short of buying the troubled assets in the next few days or another injection of capital, I don't know what they can do. I have no idea how the hell Citi and BAC are gonna convince their auditors what their assets are worth between now and March 1, the date that the annual reports have to be filed with the SEC. Of course, the old "that paper's worth 100" answer that they rubber stamped the past few years ain't gonna fly, so the government better get a plan in place real quick.
With respect to how The President will do, his legacy is far beyond his control. If we're staring down a Japanese type of funk and the economy doesn't recover fairly quickly, he'll be deemed an abject failure just like every Japanese Prime Minister has been since the early 1990's. If we're looking at just a normal credit cycle bottom/recession that is a little deeper than usual, the business cycle will recover fairly quickly once the banks stabilize and he'll be re-elected easily.
Our country had about a 16 year period of unfettered prosperity and we'll do anything to get it back. Sure, we had a slowdown in 2001-2002 with the implosion of the net bubble and 9/11, but that recession wasn't really that bad. I think one big change that happened over the past 2 decades or so was that the American worker has been opened to an amount of competition they had never seen due to improvements in logistics and high speed communications and computing. Customer service, engineering, programming, accounting and a slew of other back office jobs that used to provide a steady flow of middle class jobs have been moved to India. Additionally, the technology boom/globalization has eroded the manufacturing base in many parts of America. I am of the opinion that regaining the cost adjusted competitive advantage is outside the purview of the Executive, as the underlying causes are well outside of his control.
The Fed has soaked the market with cheap dollars since the early 90's. This cheap dollar policy masked the erosion of the base of manufacturing and back office jobs. The cheap dollar steered capital into the stock market, leading to a tremendous run up in stocks. It also helped shift those who had been displaced from manufacturing or back office jobs into other growth industries that sprung up around the two big bubbles we've seen in the past few decades.
Though I am long term bullish for America, I think that if you scratch the surface of the sources of economic growth the past 2 decades, there really isn't a whole lot of substance. And this is deeper than a union or non-union issue, or a capital versus labor issue, it's an issue of our nation's wealth only expanding on paper through investments based on the number of "eyeballs" that hit a webpage or the installation of a granite countertop and Sub Zero appliances, spurious measures of wealth at best.
Call me crazy, but I don't think the really, really big ticket issues in this country were created by one man or one political party. Nor do I think one man or one political party has the ability to bail the country out from the really, really big ticket issues that the country faces.
I do note, however, that when the President makes statements like this in his speech:
"The question we ask today is not whether our government is too big or too small, but whether it works - whether it helps families find jobs at a decent wage, care they can afford, a retirement that is dignified"
I really fear that we have shifted from a country of self-reliant hard working people with strong backs, to a bunch of whiny bitches who think that every single fucking thing they do requires the government to back them up and every single thing that goes wrong is the government's fault. If government "works" to provide high wages, health care and a "dignified" retirement, but it requires the reallocation of 80% of the GDP to do so, there is something seriously wrong.
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Post by socal on Jan 21, 2009 10:30:08 GMT -6
Don't take this the wrong way but he will be a failure. He has been so overly hyped that he can't possibly judged a success against those impossible expectations. Not to say he won't be a good president, he just has the deck stacked against him. I am cautiously optimistic. You're cautiously optimistic about him being a failure? Or cautiously optimistic you're not saying he won't be a good president?  I'm not sure you've been following along... -He is a black guy named Barack Hussein Obama -He came from a quite abnormal background -He went became the first black president of the Harvard Law Review -He graduated magna cum laude from Harvard Law -He won the nomination over a HUGE political machine -He generated more donors and donations to his campaign than anyone in history I'm kinda sure he is the person most up to handling daunting tasks. That being said... starting at an 83% Gallup approval rating doesn't leave much room for improvement. If the smallest thing he does is let America / the world understand there is a cogent and thoughtful individual at the steering wheel for 4-8 years, that could be considered a huge success when compared to what ended yesterday. |
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Post by socal on Jan 21, 2009 10:39:27 GMT -6
Im just looking forward to see what he will actually do to improve the state of the nation. So far all he has really accomplished is getting people excited that he is going to change everything for the better. You don't see the value in that, or what a monumental task that was in itself? On a personal note, I've found myself gradually moving away from the political blogs/sites I've visited almost hourly for years... and I've kind of wondered why? I realized it's similar to baby sitter competency. If you hire a baby sitter you're not sure of, as a parent you will call in quite frequently to see that they haven't been molesting your kid or encouraging them to play with firearms. But with one that is competent/trustworthy, those fears go away & you enjoy yourself. I'm quite confident that there isn't a person that visits this board that wouldn't rather Obama as their baby sitter vs. Dubya. |
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Post by twinegarden on Jan 21, 2009 10:59:38 GMT -6
Im just looking forward to see what he will actually do to improve the state of the nation. So far all he has really accomplished is getting people excited that he is going to change everything for the better. You don't see the value in that, or what a monumental task that was in itself? On a personal note, I've found myself gradually moving away from the political blogs/sites I've visited almost hourly for years... and I've kind of wondered why? I realized it's similar to baby sitter competency. If you hire a baby sitter you're not sure of, as a parent you will call in quite frequently to see that they haven't been molesting your kid or encouraging them to play with firearms. But with one that is competent/trustworthy, those fears go away & you enjoy yourself. I'm quite confident that there isn't a person that visits this board that wouldn't rather Obama as their baby sitter vs. Dubya. I see some value in that but you won't see me screaming with a huge smile on my face like the Eye of Mordor just fell. I would definately have Obama in office rather than Dubya but I'm still not going to walk around with a raging boner thinking he is the second coming of Christ either. I'm also not conviced that I like seeing this right away either: For the Unemployed: $43 billion for increased unemployment benefits. $39 billion for expanded healthcare benefits for the unemployed. $20 billion to increase food stamp benefits. I hope this money is going primarily to people who just lost their jobs and not extending the benefits of society's parasites. |
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Post by socal on Jan 21, 2009 12:33:24 GMT -6
You don't see the value in that, or what a monumental task that was in itself? On a personal note, I've found myself gradually moving away from the political blogs/sites I've visited almost hourly for years... and I've kind of wondered why? I realized it's similar to baby sitter competency. If you hire a baby sitter you're not sure of, as a parent you will call in quite frequently to see that they haven't been molesting your kid or encouraging them to play with firearms. But with one that is competent/trustworthy, those fears go away & you enjoy yourself. I'm quite confident that there isn't a person that visits this board that wouldn't rather Obama as their baby sitter vs. Dubya. I see some value in that but you won't see me screaming with a huge smile on my face like the Eye of Mordor just fell. I would definately have Obama in office rather than Dubya but I'm still not going to walk around with a raging boner thinking he is the second coming of Christ either. I'm also not conviced that I like seeing this right away either: For the Unemployed: $43 billion for increased unemployment benefits. $39 billion for expanded healthcare benefits for the unemployed. $20 billion to increase food stamp benefits. I hope this money is going primarily to people who just lost their jobs and not extending the benefits of society's parasites. I don't believe anybody is asking you to get a boner or compare him to Jesus. If you choose to get that excited or change your beliefs, that's completely up to you. As for your figures... unless those "parasites" drastically expanded their ranks and somehow now qualify for unemployment benefits, I'm pretty sure the "parasites" won't be the recipients. Then again, I would be a bit more inclined to have a few crumbs of $102 Billion go to those "parasites" than I would if 10+ times the $102 Billion is simply handed over to banks that put their money into shoddy investments - for simply filling in the gap between the overinflated value they have on the books vs. the true value of the investment. That would simply be a huge frigging billboard advertising we LOVE us some HUUUUUGE parasites and support their bubble creation. So I guess in the end... if I had to choose between the evil of between $5k - $20k / yr being given to a parasite that will immediately pump it back into the economy, vs. $300 Billion+ being given to a big parasite that will simply use it as a bit of ethereal accounting jiujitsu/filler until the next meal is needed --- I'd choose your wannabe "parasite" definition. |
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Post by twinegarden on Jan 21, 2009 12:42:30 GMT -6
I see some value in that but you won't see me screaming with a huge smile on my face like the Eye of Mordor just fell. I would definately have Obama in office rather than Dubya but I'm still not going to walk around with a raging boner thinking he is the second coming of Christ either. I'm also not conviced that I like seeing this right away either: For the Unemployed: $43 billion for increased unemployment benefits. $39 billion for expanded healthcare benefits for the unemployed. $20 billion to increase food stamp benefits. I hope this money is going primarily to people who just lost their jobs and not extending the benefits of society's parasites. I don't believe anybody is asking you to get a boner or compare him to Jesus. If you choose to get that excited or change your beliefs, that's completely up to you. As for your figures... unless those "parasites" drastically expanded their ranks and somehow now qualify for unemployment benefits, I'm pretty sure the "parasites" won't be the recipients. Then again, I would be a bit more inclined to have a few crumbs of $102 Billion go to those "parasites" than I would if 10+ times the $102 Billion is simply handed over to banks that put their money into shoddy investments - for simply filling in the gap between the overinflated value they have on the books vs. the true value of the investment. That would simply be a huge frigging billboard advertising we LOVE us some HUUUUUGE parasites and support their bubble creation. So I guess in the end... if I had to choose between the evil of between $5k - $20k / yr being given to a parasite that will immediately pump it back into the economy, vs. $300 Billion+ being given to a big parasite that will simply use it as a bit of ethereal accounting jiujitsu/filler until the next meal is needed --- I'd choose your wannabe "parasite" definition. I agree with most of what you said here. I guess I am just exposed to pieces of shit living off the government more than most people, alot of their handouts are spent on the black market, too. I'm not going to pretend like I know the ins and outs of what effect the banking deals are all about, I just know that they messed up by being too risky with their loaning. This is kind of off topic, but it does truly piss me off how people like Madoff and other white collar criminals are free on bail after swindling billions of dollars while average americans get thrown in jail for years for petty crimes. Completely off topic, but where is the justice there? |
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Post by MoHawk on Jan 21, 2009 12:45:26 GMT -6
There is none. If you've got the money to pay for big time lawyers, which most white collar criminals do, you're just going to have better legal representation than the overworked and underpaid public defender.
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Post by socal on Jan 21, 2009 13:04:51 GMT -6
There is none. If you've got the money to pay for big time lawyers, which most white collar criminals do, you're just going to have better legal representation than the overworked and underpaid public defender. True. It's also true that many normal criminals don't have access to jets that they can parachute from, then leave to crash in a 007-like get away attempt. ---On a interesting & kinda-sorta related matter: One of the US Attorneys fired by Bush for not prosecuting Democrats - has just been called up to be a prosecutor at Gitmo. ... and it is this same prosecutor that was the inspiration for Tom Cruise's character is "A Few Good Men". www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2009/01/i_want_the_truth.php |
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Post by Saggitariutt Jefferspin (ith) on Jan 21, 2009 14:10:09 GMT -6
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Post by twinegarden on Jan 21, 2009 15:38:30 GMT -6
At first I thought that was a hybrid Unibomber/Obama (Unobama) tatoo. |
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Post by Saggitariutt Jefferspin (ith) on Jan 21, 2009 15:41:21 GMT -6
At first I thought that was a hybrid Unibomber/Obama (Unobama) tatoo. +1, well played. |
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Post by twinegarden on Jan 21, 2009 16:19:04 GMT -6
Looks like Michele and Barack were pretty busy last night.  |
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