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Post by twine on Jun 2, 2010 9:26:34 GMT -6
Hey dudes, I'm getting extremely dissatisfied with my job. It's the same boring conversations over and over, no room for advancement considering 400 people apply for every job opening and I'm in a top tier entry level position. I supposedly have gotten the best annual performance ratings and the biggest raises in my position for two straight years but it doesn't seem to mean shit. We are micromanaged for every thing we do, all of our little perks have gone away due to the economic downturn and they won't be coming back no matter how well the company performs. We are constantly getting more menial, mindless tasks added. There are always new ways to critique what we do even though my team had the highest performance reviews in company history. There is nothing new to learn and I feel that I am starting to regress professionally. I get paid okay for doing a very easy job (just shy of 50k) but there is absolutely no job satisfaction anymore. I'm 30, no kids, no wife, no house payments, no debts outside of $130 per month in student loans. I want to get the fuck out of this uber-mundane way of living. However, I am slightly apprehensive about doing so because of the decent pay, possible opprotunity of advancement (probably not within a year or two though), and the comfort of having insurance and a 75% employer match (up to 6% on an 8% pay deferment). The problem is that I don't give a flying fuck about the finance industry, it seems like a scam on the masses to me. It's boring, many of the people within the industry are "stuffy", and I dream of working for myself and doing something creatively. By next March I should have about $7k in savings, $2k in checking, and about $20k in retirment. Any suggestions on how to get the fuck out of this bullshit ratrace that is corporate ladder-climbing in the financial industry? I'm not the type that needs a lot of money to have flashy things to make up for the lack of penis size, other middle class idiots can strive for that. I think I might just take 6 months to a year off starting in March and not make much cash, live in some small house and do whatever the fuck I feel like, might also bartend somewhere once or twice a week for a little extra spending money. You guys ever feel like saying fuck it to your jobs and starting from scratch again? I really have no desire to live mid to upper level proledom anymore.  |
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Post by NOTTHOR on Jun 2, 2010 10:09:38 GMT -6
You guys ever feel like saying fuck it to your jobs and starting from scratch again? I really have no desire to live mid to upper level proledom anymore. Umm, yeah, every fucking day. My brother was stuck in a shitty job like yours, but busted balls and is now very senior in his company at 37 years of age - pulling well over a quarter mil, stock options, the works. The thing is, most people don't have the pain tolerance to keep going to a shitty job everyday. No matter what, don't get suckered into more education, it's usually a scam. Save a lot now, maybe start a biz or something down the road. |
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Post by thejesus on Jun 2, 2010 11:33:06 GMT -6
I've been going down that line of thinking for quite awhile now. Unfortunately, I'm completely stuck as I now have 2 other lives to consider (besides just my own). I just have to grind it out for the next 5-6 years while I finish school and hopefully attend, and graduate, law school. As for your situation, I would advise doing exactly that …. grind it out. You may think you have hit a stale spot in life (boredom, job monotony, etc.), but the truth is that you are doing equal or better then any of our friends currently (as far as income goes, no debt, etc.). A lot of our friends would probably trade places with you in a heartbeat. Perspective is everything. You may think life isn’t as satisfying as you had hoped for at this point. But just imagine how much more it would suck if you didn’t have that 50 k income and had to go back to making $10 an hour working in a kitchen or something. I guess what I am saying is that I wouldn’t recommend any rash decisions (i.e. quitting your job without securing another one first). If you really want to do something creative and fulfilling, I would figure out an idea that would do that for you …. then pursue obtaining it. That could be anything from starting your own business, to going back to school (not for anything business related, I’m talking like an Art Institute or something), to saving up $20,000 and backpacking through Europe/Asia for a year. If you are thinking about blowing off this job, I wouldn’t do it just to sit around Iowa, I would do something that would guarantee some sort of an adventure. You could always join the Peace Corps (I heavily considered this about 5 years ago, but apparently it’s a lot harder to get in then you would think – they really prefer college grads). I’m sort of rambling here at this point. Inevitably, any major decisions/insights will have to come from within.  |
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Post by NOTTHOR on Jun 2, 2010 12:24:58 GMT -6
DO NOT GO TO LAW SCHOOL. 44,000 grads per year, a few thousand jobs. $40k annual tuition, the numbers do not add up.
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Post by Saggitariutt Jefferspin (ith) on Jun 2, 2010 12:58:23 GMT -6
Hell, I think about starting over just about every day. If I could do it again, I might do something in the culinary field as I really enjoy cooking.
BUT, I stop dreaming and realize that I can't do it...right now anyway. Consider yourself fortunate - I've spoken with a couple of people that are having a HELL of a time finding work right now. One of them just got hire on by a temp agency...he's starting over. Another buddy, that you know (that works at Nationwide...I think you probably know who I'm talking about) had to take his job but hates it more than anything. He's fucking miserable.
So I think the solution is easy. Keep at your current job, but keep looking to see what's out there. Network and see if anyone knows anyone's friend's mom's aunt that might be hiring in a line of work in your interest. Scour newspapers, online service, etc....and if you see something that catches your eye, apply!
Just don't get sold into a straight commission, get rich quick type job. Two of my friends are paying the price for that shit.
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Post by hawkeyedug on Jun 2, 2010 13:01:36 GMT -6
I am starting from scratch, would have been in about the same position as you ~$50,000 a year in a shitty small town where $50,000 would have been a fortune. I was sick of it though, and was depressed, and at that time I was only 24 or 25. This going back to school is hard, but going in to a career that I know I will actually enjoy should make it all worthwhile. I just hope I can get into a program, otherwise I just fucked up and set myself back several years for nothing.
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Post by thejesus on Jun 2, 2010 14:55:51 GMT -6
DO NOT GO TO LAW SCHOOL. 44,000 grads per year, a few thousand jobs. $40k annual tuition, the numbers do not add up. The numbers add up better then my current salary. I certainly don't plan on doing this shit for longer then I absolutely have to. |
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Post by twine on Jun 2, 2010 15:05:03 GMT -6
DO NOT GO TO LAW SCHOOL. 44,000 grads per year, a few thousand jobs. $40k annual tuition, the numbers do not add up. The numbers add up better then my current salary. I certainly don't plan on doing this shit for longer then I absolutely have to. Wait, how do the numbers add up? I didn't see any mention of a salary in there. |
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Post by thejesus on Jun 2, 2010 15:14:34 GMT -6
I'm saying I'd take my chances with a Juris Doctorate ... as compared to what I'm doing now (even factoring in lots of debt).
You want numbers .... 400 + 20 = 420
Maybe NORML will be hiring for their legal dept in 6 years
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Post by twine on Jun 2, 2010 15:20:18 GMT -6
I'm saying I'd take my chances with a Juris Doctorate ... as compared to what I'm doing now (even factoring in lots of debt). You want numbers .... 400 + 20 = 420 Maybe NORML will be hiring for their legal dept in 6 years I don't get it. I'm not doubting you won't do better than currently, not by any stretch. Just trying to put the pieces of the conversation together. |
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Post by thejesus on Jun 2, 2010 15:24:09 GMT -6
BTR is saying "Don't go to Law School" (too many graduates, not enough jobs, too much in education costs).
I'm saying that I will take my chances ...
This is all. I think this thread got side tracked.
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Post by NOTTHOR on Jun 2, 2010 15:52:21 GMT -6
DO NOT GO TO LAW SCHOOL. 44,000 grads per year, a few thousand jobs. $40k annual tuition, the numbers do not add up. The numbers add up better then my current salary. I certainly don't plan on doing this shit for longer then I absolutely have to. No seriously, pal, the numbers don't add up. Assuming you are going to go to Drake or Iowa, you'll go at least 100 grand into debt unless you have a great GPA and knock the cover off the ball on the LSAT. That's going to translate into at least a $600 a month loan payment for a LONG time. In terms of jobs, the supply of lawyers greatly exceeds demand. I got lucky as hell, finished at the very top of the class at Iowa and got a job at a huge firm in Chicago, but now our firm doesn't even interview at Iowa, they only interview at Harvard, Chicago, Stanford, Michigan, Northwestern, Columbia, etc. Only really good schools, so getting a high paying job out of Iowa now is really really hard and it is likely impossible out of Drake. Then, factor in the nut punches I take, like getting fucked with work EVERY Thanksgiving for the past 4 years, getting fucked over EVERY 4th of July for the past 4 years, getting stuck at work from 7:30 a.m. to 1:30 a.m. yesterday, and I'm one of the "lucky"ones who got a high paying job, which involves exciting shit like interpreting the Securities Act, the Investment Company Act and dozens of other drecklike statutes, as well as drafting and negotiating documents along these lines: contracts.onecle.com/aig/bank-of-new-york-indenture-2007-03-13.shtmlNow if you want to be a defense attorney and defend people, fine, but you ain't gonna make shit. LeonBT does that shit up in northern Illinois and he has fairly decent hours, but the shit stories that he tells make it sound like it pays about a fucking quarter of what it should pay. I would guess that many a recent Drake and Iowa law grad would trade places with Twine in a fucking heartbeat, to be making close to fitty large and have only $130 a month in loan payments. Look at this chart: www.elsblog.org/.a/6a00d83451b58069e2011570914111970c-piA big chunk of kids (which has shrunk tremendously) are getting paid $160k to do shit like I do (but that is a difficult job to get unless you go to Harvard or something) and then the rest are fighting for scraps down around $50k. Note that this is only for people who have jobs, which takes out a big chunk of the 44k grads per year. I know you lean pretty liberal, so I am assuming you would not even want to represent big companies fighting over money, which would leave you fighting for scraps toward the bottom of the graph. Plus, you'd have three years out of the work force while you attended school, so that shit would cost you more like $200k with opportunity cost figured in - that kind of cost for maybe a 50/50 chance at a job that pays $40-$50k just ain't worth it man. Plus, now the ABA is letting a whole shitload of legal work go to India, further gutting the profession. I know I spew a lot of bullshit, but I've got no reason to blow smoke up your ass on this issue - this shit is your life, brah. Hopefully T-hawk or Bluz will show up in this thread and back me up. And NORML ain't gonna exist in a few years pal, the stoners will win that one and NORML will dissolve. |
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Post by NOTTHOR on Jun 2, 2010 15:54:03 GMT -6
Hey jesus, what are you doing now? Aren't you still going to college? If so, I think you'd be much better suited getting a marketable undergrad degree rather than going to LS.
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Post by lpcalihawk on Jun 2, 2010 15:56:21 GMT -6
I'm saying I'd take my chances with a Juris Doctorate ... as compared to what I'm doing now (even factoring in lots of debt). You want numbers .... 400 + 20 = 420 Maybe NORML will be hiring for their legal dept in 6 years +1 At some point I'm going to quit my daily job and become a blueberry/grape farmer. I can't wait for that day to come. |
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Post by thejesus on Jun 2, 2010 16:20:54 GMT -6
Hey jesus, what are you doing now? Aren't you still going to college? If so, I think you'd be much better suited getting a marketable undergrad degree rather than going to LS. Ya, I'm attending William Penn University (College for Working Adults). I should have a Bachelors Degree in Business Management in just under 3 years. The problem is that I have no desire to be management in any type of business .... well at least not in the corporate world (I fucking hate the corporate world). A small business, or my own business, I would maybe consider doing something in. Ideally, I wanted to attend the Art Institute and go in to Digital Video and Film Production. But then I got my fiance knocked up and that totally fucked up my plans. I couldn't convince my fiance (or myself really) to move to Kansas City (the closest Art Institute) with a newborn. But at the same time, I couldn't wait any longer to go back to school to do something (I'm 30 years old). I know I have a lot of potential, but I fucked my life up partying and not giving a flying fuck about anything. I have a burning desire to rise from the ashes of my mistakes and provide a comfortable life for my family, and that shit is no joke. I am a motivated mother fucker. Looking at my son makes me feel I can do anything I want to, and makes me realize how important it is not to fail this time around. I am heavily considering law school because I want some sort of graduate degree that will provide the kind of life that I want for my family. I also want the flexibility to be able to spend alot of time with them. My father was a successful criminal defense attorney in small town Iowa, and made a very good living at it. He was apparently an extremely good trial lawyer and was making quite a name for himself (he had a few fairly high profile murder cases and was known as one of the best drug-related criminal defense attorneys around). So you can say it is in my blood. But then again, he succumbed to his demons/addictions (booze and women) and ended up getting himself disbarred. He went from pulling in $175,000 a year in small town Iowa (with an average income less then $30,000), and owning his own business, to making $20 an hour as a prison guard in Arizona. So I guess, in all fairness, you can say that is in my blood as well (although I'm extremely confident I won't tread down his path as I am secure and happy with the love I have in my life). Shit man .... I don't know. I just want to live an above average lifestyle (have a nice house, a boat, nice car, etc.) and be able to enjoy my family. My motivation is strong. I have no doubt I have the intelligence to do whatever I put my mind towards. But I'm not going to lie and say I want to be a lawyer with every fiber of my being. I'd rather actually live in a forest, next to a mountain, and tend to my garden and become a poet or something .... LOL I guess I have a few years to figure it out. I suppose a college degree isn't a bad thing, no matter how you slice it. We'll see what happens after that. |
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Post by thejesus on Jun 2, 2010 16:24:42 GMT -6
sorry for hijacking your thread twine
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Post by thejesus on Jun 2, 2010 16:31:43 GMT -6
Also, I would hope that I would be able to make it into the U of I Law School and not have to go to Drake. My father graduated from there. I'm fairly sure I'll be able to rock close to a 4.0 GPA during the next 3 years (I'm 2 for 2 so far in my classes). I've always done well on tests, so I don't think I'll do bad at the LSAT. I'll be able to money an essay about overcoming challenges in my life and turning shit around (competitors bested, obstacles overcome, etc.), so that should help a little with the admissions process. If my dad could do it, then I can too. But I don't take that for granted. I know the U of I has an excellent LS and a low admission percentage. Still, I believe in creating your own reality .... so I will make that shit happen.  |
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Post by twine on Jun 2, 2010 17:02:53 GMT -6
I'm thinking very hard about saving up around $10,000 over the next year, buying a bunch of music equipment then living in some shanty in a small town and cranking out a bunch of music that nobody will ever hear other than people I know just for the fuck of it. I may not make any money doing that for a while but being a corprate cube monkey feels like a waste of life.
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Post by Gumbyhawk on Jun 2, 2010 18:12:37 GMT -6
being a corprate cube monkey feels like a waste of life. Truer words were never spoken. It sucks. Royally. I dream of a job where I don't have to deal with people. Ever. |
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Post by Gumbyhawk on Jun 2, 2010 18:14:24 GMT -6
Hell, I think about starting over just about every day. If I could do it again, I might do something in the culinary field as I really enjoy cooking. BUT, I stop dreaming and realize that I can't do it...right now anyway. Consider yourself fortunate - I've spoken with a couple of people that are having a HELL of a time finding work right now. One of them just got hire on by a temp agency...he's starting over. Another buddy, that you know (that works at Nationwide...I think you probably know who I'm talking about) had to take his job but hates it more than anything. He's fucking miserable. So I think the solution is easy. Keep at your current job, but keep looking to see what's out there. Network and see if anyone knows anyone's friend's mom's aunt that might be hiring in a line of work in your interest. Scour newspapers, online service, etc....and if you see something that catches your eye, apply! Just don't get sold into a straight commission, get rich quick type job. Two of my friends are paying the price for that shit. Not to hijack, but this friend at Nationwide.... may I ask what department? I ask due to curiousity if his job there at Nationwide could possibly suck more than my department. |
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Post by Saggitariutt Jefferspin (ith) on Jun 2, 2010 18:29:41 GMT -6
I'm not 100% what his job entails...you know how those corporate titles mean almost nothing. This is from his signature off an email:
NSS Direct Sales Agent
Nationwide Sales Solutions
I know it's commission based.
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Post by The Bluzmn on Jun 3, 2010 4:36:35 GMT -6
The numbers add up better then my current salary. I certainly don't plan on doing this shit for longer then I absolutely have to. No seriously, pal, the numbers don't add up. Assuming you are going to go to Drake or Iowa, you'll go at least 100 grand into debt unless you have a great GPA and knock the cover off the ball on the LSAT. That's going to translate into at least a $600 a month loan payment for a LONG time. In terms of jobs, the supply of lawyers greatly exceeds demand. I got lucky as hell, finished at the very top of the class at Iowa and got a job at a huge firm in Chicago, but now our firm doesn't even interview at Iowa, they only interview at Harvard, Chicago, Stanford, Michigan, Northwestern, Columbia, etc. Only really good schools, so getting a high paying job out of Iowa now is really really hard and it is likely impossible out of Drake. Then, factor in the nut punches I take, like getting fucked with work EVERY Thanksgiving for the past 4 years, getting fucked over EVERY 4th of July for the past 4 years, getting stuck at work from 7:30 a.m. to 1:30 a.m. yesterday, and I'm one of the "lucky"ones who got a high paying job, which involves exciting shit like interpreting the Securities Act, the Investment Company Act and dozens of other drecklike statutes, as well as drafting and negotiating documents along these lines: contracts.onecle.com/aig/bank-of-new-york-indenture-2007-03-13.shtmlNow if you want to be a defense attorney and defend people, fine, but you ain't gonna make shit. LeonBT does that shit up in northern Illinois and he has fairly decent hours, but the shit stories that he tells make it sound like it pays about a fucking quarter of what it should pay. I would guess that many a recent Drake and Iowa law grad would trade places with Twine in a fucking heartbeat, to be making close to fitty large and have only $130 a month in loan payments. Look at this chart: www.elsblog.org/.a/6a00d83451b58069e2011570914111970c-piA big chunk of kids (which has shrunk tremendously) are getting paid $160k to do shit like I do (but that is a difficult job to get unless you go to Harvard or something) and then the rest are fighting for scraps down around $50k. Note that this is only for people who have jobs, which takes out a big chunk of the 44k grads per year. I know you lean pretty liberal, so I am assuming you would not even want to represent big companies fighting over money, which would leave you fighting for scraps toward the bottom of the graph. Plus, you'd have three years out of the work force while you attended school, so that shit would cost you more like $200k with opportunity cost figured in - that kind of cost for maybe a 50/50 chance at a job that pays $40-$50k just ain't worth it man. Plus, now the ABA is letting a whole shitload of legal work go to India, further gutting the profession. I know I spew a lot of bullshit, but I've got no reason to blow smoke up your ass on this issue - this shit is your life, brah. Hopefully T-hawk or Bluz will show up in this thread and back me up. And NORML ain't gonna exist in a few years pal, the stoners will win that one and NORML will dissolve. Oh, I'll back you up alright. I have so many people tell me that they want to go to law school and my response is always NOOOOO!!!!! I left practice after three years and went to work for an insurance carrier handling medical malpractice claims (basically, a high-level adjuster). When I went to a Chicago alumni get together, everybody there was congratulating me on getting out. What does that tell you? I know a handful of people from my class that enjoy what they do and they are in low-paying jobs like clerking or working for the AG. With the insurance companies, I worked with defense firms all over the country and I can count on my fingers the number of people I knew that loved what they were doing, and the people I worked with were usually high-ranking partners. If you want to do something you care about (environmental law, help the poor, any of the "causes," etc.), you will make shit. If you want to make real money, it will be at a mid-size to large firm and the pressure sucks, the hours suck and your life will be scratching and clawing to make partner. Oh, BTW, most firms have extended that timeframe to 10+ years and it is not a given that you will get the reward if you put in the time. And you better scorch those exams in law school to get into those firms. There are a lot of people wanting to get in there. Going to law school was one of the biggest mistakes I ever made. My loan payment is $744 per month. I actually practiced law at a firm for about three years before going the insurance company route for a lot less money (less than $100k but I worked regular hours other than travel). And just so you know, I was very good at it - rated 7 out of 10 on partnership track after only two years with the firm. It was the all-consuming nature of the profession that chased me out. It becomes who you are, not what you do. Anybody thinking about law school should think again. Unless you really know what you are getting into and want it, or you are well off enough to go without incurring the debt load, I say do something else. |
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Post by 101 on Jun 3, 2010 6:22:20 GMT -6
Twine....let me give you a bit of perspective from someone who's been around a bit longer than most on this board.
At this point in my life, why do I go to work each day? Is it because I like or love my job? No. Is it because I'm looking for a sense of satisfaction or to stroke my ego? No. At this point in my life (48), I go to work because like most, I get hungry and appreciate a roof over my head. That is why I go to work.
It's good to enjoy what you do and it's fantastic when you get some satisfaction out of what you do, after all, you do spend a descent amount of your life at work. Just keep in mind...you should work to live, not live to work.
With that said, no one ever gets a pay increase or raise simply because they do their job, or even because they do well at their job. That is called "meeting expectations". Promotions and advancements really don't occur unless you are bringing something to the table that others aren't. To move up the ranks, you not only need to do your job very well, and better than your peers, you need to do something that helps to solve problems within your company, bring ideas that will help increase efficiency, remove cost from the equation, or other revenue generating ideas. No one moves up just because they are good at their job.
Lots of people yearn to do a job that they love. It's all good when it happens to work out that way, but far too often, life just doesn't work like that. "I want to be a rock star" or "I want to be an actor". Those people really want to pursue those career options because it is something they love or have passion for. As you know, the odds of being successful in those ventures are slim to none and most are nothing more than starving artists.
On the other hand, from what I've seen, the people that have the tendency to be most successful are those who pursue career choices that compliment their natural skills and talents. What am I good at? (even if it isn't something that I absolutely love)
Look at it this way, do you really think BTR "loves" reading through contracts, going through all of the bullshit that he has thrown in his face day after day after day? Hell no. We all know that his firm didn't hire him because of his stunning good looks nor charming personality, right? (Sorry BTR....always looking for an opportunity to bust your chops). No. They hired him because he has a skill to perform the desired task well, efficiently, and accurately. No matter how much they pay him, he brings a positive return on their investement. He helps and allows his company to be successful. That's why they want him and that's why they need him.
I think the best path to being successful is to really stand back, evaluate your strengths and weaknesses, figure out where your natural skill and talent is and then figure out how to capitalize on those strengths. I don't "love" what I do, but I do it well, and I bring something to the table that other's can't. That is what has allowed me to achieve some success on the career path.
If you can figure that out, then in your time outside of work, you can focus on those other things in life that bring you pleasure. If you want to hang out in a shack, jam the tunes that no one will ever hear, that's totally cool. You fill your free time with those types of activities and you can then satisfy both needs. You're damn good at photography....I've seen your work. Perhaps that is something that you should consider.
Just sharing a few thoughts this morning. (Only downed 1 cup of coffee so this may not be too coherent).
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Post by Saggitariutt Jefferspin (ith) on Jun 3, 2010 8:24:44 GMT -6
Just sharing a few thoughts this morning. (Only downed 1 cup of coffee so this may not be too coherent). Actually there are some wise words in there. Even though it wasn't directed at me, it was good for me to read this morning. I've been getting my ass to me lately and needed some knowledge/perspective to get me going this morning. |
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Post by twine on Jun 3, 2010 8:41:32 GMT -6
Just sharing a few thoughts this morning. (Only downed 1 cup of coffee so this may not be too coherent). Actually there are some wise words in there. Even though it wasn't directed at me, it was good for me to read this morning. I've been getting my ass to me lately and needed some knowledge/perspective to get me going this morning. Agreed. I've obviously been thinking about all of this stuff quite a bit lately. I have come to the conclusion that I'm being a bit of a whiner as far as the whole topic is concerned. Sure the corporate life totally sucks donkey balls but it does enable me to live pretty freely outside of work. I should really be counting my blessing instead of harping but sometimes the daily grind can wear on a young fella like myself. I think what I'll do is try and push the reset button on my attitude toward work, keep doing what I do and making baby steps toward a promotion. In the meantime I think I'll look into getting some sort of certification that will move me up or expand my options. I'm also going to see about switching my hours around to work 7 to 3:30 or 8 to 4:30, Ive been working till 7 pm for about two years which gives over $4000 in shift differential but I'm starting to think it's not worth it. I'll use this time to focus on my hobbies a little more. I also plan to start putting away $500 into a savings account and keeping the option of picking up and starting over alive and expand the possibilities in that regard as well. I'm going to focus on the "work to live" mentality and keep grinding it. I think I've been losing focus on the green grass on this side of the fence, especially when said fence is made up of an employment line. Sometimes I think when you meet certain goals in life you kind of lose your direction afterward. Once I got my debt paid off and made a $ amount I had set a side to reach by 32 a couple years early, I found myself thinking, "Well, now what?". Abandoning ship is probably not the best next step. Thanks for all the input fellas, I really do appreciate it. |
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