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Post by A boy named Sioux on Apr 1, 2014 20:54:32 GMT -6
End thread.
Another decisive win for the partner.
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Post by thunderhawk on Apr 1, 2014 20:59:59 GMT -6
End thread. Another decisive win for the partner. Realizing of course that means that America, neither unique nor exceptional, is truly fucked, and that all of us are gonna get dragged down and suffer for it. Illusions always shatter upon the sharp rocks of reality.
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Post by A boy named Sioux on Apr 1, 2014 21:03:23 GMT -6
The key will be to minimize the amount of wealth you have that can be redistributed i guess.
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Post by thunderhawk on Apr 1, 2014 21:14:40 GMT -6
The key will be to minimize the amount of wealth you have that can be redistributed i guess. That'll be an afterthought to personal security. Think "South Africa." I've always supported a strong welfare state solely based on the idea of societal tranquility. I don't give a fuck about ideology. I'm willing to pay off the unwashed masses to live in peace. I think it's gonna crack. I feel it fraying, and bad.
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Post by #70 on Apr 1, 2014 21:14:50 GMT -6
Which is why I couldn't care less about anyone but me, myself, my hot ass wife, and my awesome kid. The rest of this world can go fuck themselves.
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Post by NOTTHOR on Apr 1, 2014 21:16:19 GMT -6
End thread. Another decisive win for the partner. Realizing of course that means that America, neither unique nor exceptional, is truly fucked, and that all of us are gonna get dragged down and suffer for it. Illusions always shatter upon the sharp rocks of reality. America is nowhere near fucked. Some people in America may be "fucked" but those people have a materially better existence than well over 90% of humans who have ever inhabited this planet. The issue is of course that that standard of living isn't high enough for these petulant children and they blame someone else for not making it higher. America is extremely exceptional. The landgrab our forefathers engaged in has bestowed us with tremendous gifts. And we have taken pretty fucking good care of it, all things considered. We also have vast oceans separating us from bad people who would want to grab that land. I'd much rather be a prole born in Coalville, Iowa than a prole born in China or India or even France where your bloodline determines your lot in life.
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Post by thunderhawk on Apr 1, 2014 21:37:00 GMT -6
Realizing of course that means that America, neither unique nor exceptional, is truly fucked, and that all of us are gonna get dragged down and suffer for it. Illusions always shatter upon the sharp rocks of reality. America is nowhere near fucked. Some people in America may be "fucked" but those people have a materially better existence than well over 90% of humans who have ever inhabited this planet. The issue is of course that that standard of living isn't high enough for these petulant children and they blame someone else for not making it higher. America is extremely exceptional. The landgrab our forefathers engaged in has bestowed us with tremendous gifts. And we have taken pretty fucking good care of it, all things considered. We also have vast oceans separating us from bad people who would want to grab that land. I'd much rather be a prole born in Coalville, Iowa than a prole born in China or India or even France where your bloodline determines your lot in life. Your best bet is to be a prole born in Germany. China and India can be nuked off the face of the earth. Fuck those trolls. America is becoming a giant Ponzi scheme with a massive military and inherent advantages borne of geography and post WWII geopolitical dominance. You're looking backwards. Look forward. It's bleak, at least in one of two plausible future scenarios. The oligarchs are gonna take and take and take, and they are too fucking psychotic to know when to stop. And they feel zero allegiance to the national interest, which is ironic since they act like full metal fascists. Corporations are fucking superpeople my friend. Welcome to the brave new world.
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Post by thunderhawk on Apr 1, 2014 22:34:14 GMT -6
Because Millar's wife has teh chills for crissakes.
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Post by Stan's Field on Apr 2, 2014 0:17:29 GMT -6
Brrrrrrzies
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Post by NotMyKid on Apr 2, 2014 9:32:26 GMT -6
Well pay the fidler, I did. The last year the insurance companies really went overboard on the cherry-picking. Actually they did the opposite and pretty much let anyone in. They figured if they were going to have to bend over anyway they might as well get some premium for it. I'm not talking someone with a allergies or some shit like that I am talking people with chronic conditions that wouldn't have a shot in hell of getting coverage before. Not surprising but there is a massive amount of miss information out there. I will say the same thing that I have told everyone about the ACA, it is great for some and really bad for others. The shit is really going to hit the fan however when the non grandfathered plan exemption goes away, unless they continue to move the date back on those. At least in Iowa if one doesn't qualify for a subsidy in most cases I have seen they will be looking at a 25%-250% increase in premium for coverage in many cases that isn't as good as their current plan.
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Post by NotMyKid on Apr 2, 2014 9:51:24 GMT -6
if you're trying to make people feel sorry for insurance companies, I submit to you that you're in the wrong fucking place, pal the motherfuckers have been ass-raping us for over a century Not at all, the whole system is indeed fucked. The one thing that would solve a lot of problems is transparency on pricing for procedures and such. Sure everybody wants to be able to go to Mayo or the U of I if they need to but in many cases people get ass raped by those places when they could get the same service for a hell of a lot less at another hospital or even a fucking doctors office. The problem is nobody gives a shit because they just see deductible and out of pocket. The insurance companies, the hospitals, the drug makers, the doctors, etc. are running one giant fucking ponzi scheme. I honestly think we are heading down the road to public and private facilities. Maybe not in 5 or 10 years but I think we are headed that way. And once again those that have the means will be fine and those without it won't have a choice (or much of a choice) in the matter.
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Post by BrainFerentz4Prez on Apr 2, 2014 10:41:52 GMT -6
if you're trying to make people feel sorry for insurance companies, I submit to you that you're in the wrong fucking place, pal the motherfuckers have been ass-raping us for over a century Not at all, the whole system is indeed fucked. The one thing that would solve a lot of problems is transparency on pricing for procedures and such. Sure everybody wants to be able to go to Mayo or the U of I if they need to but in many cases people get ass raped by those places when they could get the same service for a hell of a lot less at another hospital or even a fucking doctors office. The problem is nobody gives a shit because they just see deductible and out of pocket. The insurance companies, the hospitals, the drug makers, the doctors, etc. are running one giant fucking ponzi scheme. I honestly think we are heading down the road to public and private facilities. Maybe not in 5 or 10 years but I think we are headed that way. And once again those that have the means will be fine and those without it won't have a choice (or much of a choice) in the matter. You know who's done a remarkable job of establishing consistent pricing for procedures and providing reasonable health care for millions of people? The government. That Medicare shit ain't bad.
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Post by NOTTHOR on Apr 2, 2014 10:59:26 GMT -6
Not at all, the whole system is indeed fucked. The one thing that would solve a lot of problems is transparency on pricing for procedures and such. Sure everybody wants to be able to go to Mayo or the U of I if they need to but in many cases people get ass raped by those places when they could get the same service for a hell of a lot less at another hospital or even a fucking doctors office. The problem is nobody gives a shit because they just see deductible and out of pocket. The insurance companies, the hospitals, the drug makers, the doctors, etc. are running one giant fucking ponzi scheme. I honestly think we are heading down the road to public and private facilities. Maybe not in 5 or 10 years but I think we are headed that way. And once again those that have the means will be fine and those without it won't have a choice (or much of a choice) in the matter. You know who's done a remarkable job of establishing consistent pricing for procedures and providing reasonable health care for millions of people? The government. That Medicare shit ain't bad. Is this a fucking troll post? The government sets pricing for the same procedure at completely different rates in every geographic location and hospital group in the US. Procedure X might cost $400 in Baton Rouge, $150 in Counciltucky and $300 across the river in Omahall, and oh yeah, the prices will vary based on the size of the healthcare provider offering the services. And of course, Medicare has a most favored nations pricing clause which has the effect of setting that Medicare price as the floor. You about have to have a PhD in economics to able to understand pricing of just one procedure across two hospitals that might be 5 miles apart but are in different counties or towns. You know what has done a really remarkable job of establishing consistent, competitive and decreasing prices? The market with no insurance companies or Medicare reimbursements placing a black box over pricing. Lasik is one such example. That shit used to cost a fortune, but people pay out of pocket for it and as a result prices have plummeted and competition has flourished. General healthcare is moving in precisely the opposite direction as larger hospital and healthcare groups buy up smaller groups because larger groups get bigger Medicare overhead allocations and thus are given a higher reimbursement rate, which in turn allows them to pay doctors more than they would earn in a 5 or 10 person group outside of the larger system. The healthcare delivery system is not established around efficiency, it is established around game theory and rent seeking activities to siphon as much money out of Medicare through gamesmanship as possible.
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Post by NOTTHOR on Apr 2, 2014 11:05:45 GMT -6
America is nowhere near fucked. Some people in America may be "fucked" but those people have a materially better existence than well over 90% of humans who have ever inhabited this planet. The issue is of course that that standard of living isn't high enough for these petulant children and they blame someone else for not making it higher. America is extremely exceptional. The landgrab our forefathers engaged in has bestowed us with tremendous gifts. And we have taken pretty fucking good care of it, all things considered. We also have vast oceans separating us from bad people who would want to grab that land. I'd much rather be a prole born in Coalville, Iowa than a prole born in China or India or even France where your bloodline determines your lot in life. Your best bet is to be a prole born in Germany. China and India can be nuked off the face of the earth. Fuck those trolls. America is becoming a giant Ponzi scheme with a massive military and inherent advantages borne of geography and post WWII geopolitical dominance. You're looking backwards. Look forward. It's bleak, at least in one of two plausible future scenarios. The oligarchs are gonna take and take and take, and they are too fucking psychotic to know when to stop. And they feel zero allegiance to the national interest, which is ironic since they act like full metal fascists. Corporations are fucking superpeople my friend. Welcome to the brave new world. I disagree with most of your post. The intellectual property based nature of a vast swath of the American economy has completely unsettled moneyed interests. Wealth ultimately comes from two sources - the Earth (i.e. the tangible stuff you consume such as food, water, air, oil, your home) and intellectual property (either in the form of being able to manipulate the tangible stuff into something you need (i.e. oil into fuel for your car) or for your consumption (things to occupy your time or make you more productive). The US is the world leader in both of those categories and ain't shit gonna stop it.
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Post by NotMyKid on Apr 2, 2014 11:07:38 GMT -6
You know who's done a remarkable job of establishing consistent pricing for procedures and providing reasonable health care for millions of people? The government. That Medicare shit ain't bad. Is this a fucking troll post? The government sets pricing for the same procedure at completely different rates in every geographic location and hospital group in the US. Procedure X might cost $400 in Baton Rouge, $150 in Counciltucky and $300 across the river in Omahall, and oh yeah, the prices will vary based on the size of the healthcare provider offering the services. And of course, Medicare has a most favored nations pricing clause which has the effect of setting that Medicare price as the floor. You about have to have a PhD in economics to able to understand pricing of just one procedure across two hospitals that might be 5 miles apart but are in different counties or towns. You know what has done a really remarkable job of establishing consistent, competitive and decreasing prices? The market with no insurance companies or Medicare reimbursements placing a black box over pricing. Lasik is one such example. That shit used to cost a fortune, but people pay out of pocket for it and as a result prices have plummeted and competition has flourished. General healthcare is moving in precisely the opposite direction as larger hospital and healthcare groups buy up smaller groups because larger groups get bigger Medicare overhead allocations and thus are given a higher reimbursement rate, which in turn allows them to pay doctors more than they would earn in a 5 or 10 person group outside of the larger system. The healthcare delivery system is not established around efficiency, it is established around game theory and rent seeking activities to siphon as much money out of Medicare through gamesmanship as possible. This. Medicare is a fucking disaster.
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Post by BrainFerentz4Prez on Apr 2, 2014 11:22:57 GMT -6
Soooo compare the job medicare has done to the job Kaiser or BCBS has done and get back to me.
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Post by NOTTHOR on Apr 2, 2014 11:39:47 GMT -6
Soooo compare the job medicare has done to the job Kaiser or BCBS has done and get back to me. I don't know about where you live, but in Chicago you'd have to have a fucking hole in your head to voluntarily select coverage on Medicare over BCBS. And if you throw in Medicaid, holy shit, well the government is only 24 months behind on payments right now so guess where your spot in line is gonna be when ten people on BCBS show up at the same hospital.
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Post by BrainFerentz4Prez on Apr 2, 2014 12:27:30 GMT -6
Thats kinda changin the rules aint it? We wuz discussin which does a better jov keepin costs down.
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Post by NotMyKid on Apr 2, 2014 12:46:37 GMT -6
Soooo compare the job medicare has done to the job Kaiser or BCBS has done and get back to me. That's like trying to compare an apple to apple sauce. It ain't the same fucking thing. Medicare and the government swing a big fucking stick and there isn't any negotiation involved, hospitals and doctors either take the shitty reimbursement rate or they tell seniors we ain't taking anymore medicare patients because we can't afford to. And news flash that is happening more and more in this country.
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Post by BrainFerentz4Prez on Apr 2, 2014 13:21:49 GMT -6
Soooo compare the job medicare has done to the job Kaiser or BCBS has done and get back to me. That's like trying to compare an apple to apple sauce. It ain't the same fucking thing. Medicare and the government swing a big fucking stick and there isn't any negotiation involved, hospitals and doctors either take the shitty reimbursement rate or they tell seniors we ain't taking anymore medicare patients because we can't afford to. And news flash that is happening more and more in this country. Damn right they swing a big stick. Thats the point. If I am gonna chose a middle man to speak for me Id choose Uncle Sug over Kaiser Wilhelm any day of the week.
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Post by thunderhawk on Apr 2, 2014 13:34:05 GMT -6
Soooo compare the job medicare has done to the job Kaiser or BCBS has done and get back to me. That's like trying to compare an apple to apple sauce. It ain't the same fucking thing. Medicare and the government swing a big fucking stick and there isn't any negotiation involved, hospitals and doctors either take the shitty reimbursement rate or they tell seniors we ain't taking anymore medicare patients because we can't afford to. And news flash that is happening more and more in this country. Good luck with that. Oh hai wrinkling baby boomers.
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Post by thunderhawk on Apr 2, 2014 13:35:21 GMT -6
TEH INVISIBLE HAND OF LE MARKET WILL SOLVE ALL PROBLEMS AND EVERYONE IS BORN WITH THE SAME OPPORTUNITIES "My face totes don't just scream kick my fucking ass."
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Post by NotMyKid on Apr 2, 2014 13:41:43 GMT -6
That's like trying to compare an apple to apple sauce. It ain't the same fucking thing. Medicare and the government swing a big fucking stick and there isn't any negotiation involved, hospitals and doctors either take the shitty reimbursement rate or they tell seniors we ain't taking anymore medicare patients because we can't afford to. And news flash that is happening more and more in this country. Good luck with that. Oh hai wrinkling baby boomers. You are aware that there are plenty of doctors that are no longer accepting new Medicare patients correct?
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Post by thunderhawk on Apr 2, 2014 13:46:19 GMT -6
Good luck with that. Oh hai wrinkling baby boomers. You are aware that there are plenty of doctors that are no longer accepting new Medicare patients correct? Yep. I'm also aware that an accelerating percentage of the population is Medicare-eligible. So there's a disconnect and a dilemma going on here. These docs, clinics, and whatnot will be able to steer this skiff for a while, but the wave that is demographics always eventually wins. And with this demonstrating the mentality of your average 'Murkan, we are, my friend, quite unrighteously fucked.
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Post by LansingHawk on Apr 2, 2014 13:51:03 GMT -6
See where I said "private insurance"? Basic coverage at HIP Iowa that wouldn't meet the minimum standards of Obamacare would have run $940/ month just for her. Want to know why she was turned down for insurance? She was on antidepressants. That was her ONLY health issue. Hate to break it to you, pal, but that is about what insurance costs. My $6,000 per year deductible plan costs $1600 a month for me and my wife. Wow, you are being raked over the coals. I got no where near that high of a deductible. The wife and I are both 54 and we get insurance for $540 a month.
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