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Post by Ginger on Oct 21, 2019 12:00:22 GMT -6
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Post by Ginger on Oct 21, 2019 12:01:47 GMT -6
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Post by NOTTHOR on Oct 21, 2019 12:17:46 GMT -6
Man, Hilldawg's intern is working overtime trying to get into the shit posting game. Does this mean Hilldawg is really gonna go for a Buffalo Bills level of futility in running for POTUS?
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Post by TaterWanger on Oct 21, 2019 13:29:08 GMT -6
I thought it was pretty well understood medicare for all was going to require a significant tax increase. I also thought it was understood that people wouldnt be paying insurance premiums out of their paychecks so it kinda offsets it. Plus with medicare for all neice with cystic fibrosis gets to live to see 30 son thats pretty cool also...
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Post by GhostMod 5000 on Oct 21, 2019 14:22:09 GMT -6
I thought it was pretty well understood medicare for all was going to require a significant tax increase. I also thought it was understood that people wouldnt be paying insurance premiums out of their paychecks so it kinda offsets it. Plus with medicare for all neice with cystic fibrosis gets to live to see 30 son thats pretty cool also... You could tax an additional 15% of my income, and I still come out even. Except now I don't have co-pays or deductibles. Although I would really miss the special kind of fun that comes from having a $500 medical bill sit there because insurance rejected the claim, but only because one part of the hospital system coded the treatment wrong to the other part of the hospital system.
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Post by TaterWanger on Oct 21, 2019 15:17:17 GMT -6
My favorite part of health insurance so far was the time we're on Thanksgiving Day in a different state I had to go to an urgent care to address strep throat. Even though the bill was $122 and Urgent Care was covered in full under my plan my insurance company repeatedly denied the claim because the Urgent Care Facility had the word clinic at the end of their name. Everybody knows that clinics are different than urgent cares. They also kindly pointed out that if I would have called them first they would have been glad to point this out to me before the visit and save me the hassle. Of course I would have had to wait until the following Monday when they actually opened. Anyways after a dozen phone calls four letters and roughly 6 hours on the phone they finally caved and agreed to pay it under the one-time exception customer education Clause of my health insurance contract. When you break it all down they spent roughly $832 to deny $122 bill if they eventually paid anyway. I'd hate to be the sucker that has to pay for all that inefficient overhead.
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Post by A boy named Sioux on Oct 21, 2019 15:21:57 GMT -6
Look proles, your taxes will go up 15% just to cover yourself and your family, and then go up even higher to cover all the great unwashed that you will be sharing your plan with who cant be bothered to work or pay any taxes. And if we are talking inefficient overhead, uncle sugar wrote the book on that one.
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Post by Ginger on Oct 21, 2019 15:56:15 GMT -6
Look proles, your taxes will go up 15% just to cover yourself and your family, and then go up even higher to cover all the great unwashed that you will be sharing your plan with who cant be bothered to work or pay any taxes. And if we are talking inefficient overhead, uncle sugar wrote the book on that one. Let’s not forget all the Uber rich people that basically don’t pay any taxes.
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Post by Ginger on Oct 21, 2019 16:50:53 GMT -6
Holy shit. What is with this Wohl guy? Can’t he be Arrested? Committed?
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Post by TaterWanger on Oct 22, 2019 7:59:31 GMT -6
Look proles, your taxes will go up 15% just to cover yourself and your family, and then go up even higher to cover all the great unwashed that you will be sharing your plan with who cant be bothered to work or pay any taxes. And if we are talking inefficient overhead, uncle sugar wrote the book on that one. Try comparing the percentage of the costs that go toward administration and overhead for Medicare vs the same for your current insurance company and get back to me. The only people that get fucked by the Medicare for all scenario are the rank and file employees of the health insurance industry. But they will be able to get jerbs in teh cervix industry which will boom once all teh proles who used to spend all that money on health insurance can instead spend it at Applebees.
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Post by Stan's Field on Oct 22, 2019 17:37:43 GMT -6
Brah, you're not convincing her fanboy on m'here tho....facts don't matter anymore.
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Post by thunderhawk on Oct 23, 2019 9:16:21 GMT -6
I can't believe "abuse of power is not a crime" Whitaker shares my alumnus pedigree.
fuck.
To clarify, "abuse of power" is the umbrella term covering the actual enumerated criminal acts.
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Post by The Resistance on Oct 23, 2019 9:22:11 GMT -6
Look proles, your taxes will go up 15% just to cover yourself and your family, and then go up even higher to cover all the great unwashed that you will be sharing your plan with who cant be bothered to work or pay any taxes. And if we are talking inefficient overhead, uncle sugar wrote the book on that one. Let’s not forget all the Uber rich people that basically don’t pay any taxes. Let's not forget the uber poor proles like me that pay 22k a year in premiums for a 5k deductable.
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Post by The Resistance on Oct 23, 2019 9:36:16 GMT -6
My favorite part of health insurance so far was the time we're on Thanksgiving Day in a different state I had to go to an urgent care to address strep throat. Even though the bill was $122 and Urgent Care was covered in full under my plan my insurance company repeatedly denied the claim because the Urgent Care Facility had the word clinic at the end of their name. Everybody knows that clinics are different than urgent cares. They also kindly pointed out that if I would have called them first they would have been glad to point this out to me before the visit and save me the hassle. Of course I would have had to wait until the following Monday when they actually opened. Anyways after a dozen phone calls four letters and roughly 6 hours on the phone they finally caved and agreed to pay it under the one-time exception customer education Clause of my health insurance contract. When you break it all down they spent roughly $832 to deny $122 bill if they eventually paid anyway. I'd hate to be the sucker that has to pay for all that inefficient overhead. Duff try Virtual Care next time, Sit in your boxers, drink a beer and face time your symptoms. Have another beer and send the wife to pick up your prescription.
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Post by thunderhawk on Oct 23, 2019 10:18:00 GMT -6
Let’s not forget all the Uber rich people that basically don’t pay any taxes. Let's not forget the uber poor proles like me that pay 22k a year in premiums for a 5k deductable. The entire system is a giant hydraheaded clusterfuck. There is no rationality to it, be it coverage or cost. You're not really paying according to actuarial risk like you are with property/casualty or auto insurance. You're kind of paying into a ponzi scheme. I'd wager that you accrue substantially less than 27K in medical expenses per annum. Assuming that, you're subsidizing someone else...but they're also either grossly overpaying or underpaying. Maybe it averages out over the years, but it probably doesn't, because once you're old, when the shit really hits the fan, Medicare is the primary payer. (Medicare exists, of course, primarily because no private insurer could stay in business insuring older people.) Occasionally those in the "low risk" group encounter a massive blowout health care expense, which of course distorts everything. You get one catastrophic birth event or bad accident and it drops an atom bomb on the actuarial calculus. So...what people REALLY need is reasonable, predictable premium expenses that cover catastrophes with a reasonable deductible that doesn't discourage preventative care. We're probably looking at a situation where the government may have to step in as the reinsurer of last resort for these catastrophic events because they seem to distort the entire calculus. HOWEVER Private insurers, and their cunt CEOs with their yachts and mansions obtained by denying coverage to sick children, have been such terrible actors and prolific grifters that they've abdicated any leg to stand on, which allows demagogues like Liz and Bern to rightly demonize them.
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Post by LansingHawk on Oct 23, 2019 11:31:48 GMT -6
Let's not forget the uber poor proles like me that pay 22k a year in premiums for a 5k deductable. The entire system is a giant hydraheaded clusterfuck. There is no rationality to it, be it coverage or cost. You're not really paying according to actuarial risk like you are with property/casualty or auto insurance. You're kind of paying into a ponzi scheme. I'd wager that you accrue substantially less than 27K in medical expenses per annum. Assuming that, you're subsidizing someone else...but they're also either grossly overpaying or underpaying. Maybe it averages out over the years, but it probably doesn't, because once you're old, when the shit really hits the fan, Medicare is the primary payer. (Medicare exists, of course, primarily because no private insurer could stay in business insuring older people.) Occasionally those in the "low risk" group encounter a massive blowout health care expense, which of course distorts everything. You get one catastrophic birth event or bad accident and it drops an atom bomb on the actuarial calculus. So...what people REALLY need is reasonable, predictable premium expenses that cover catastrophes with a reasonable deductible that doesn't discourage preventative care. We're probably looking at a situation where the government may have to step in as the reinsurer of last resort for these catastrophic events because they seem to distort the entire calculus. HOWEVER Private insurers, and their cunt CEOs with their yachts and mansions obtained by denying coverage to sick children, have been such terrible actors and prolific grifters that they've abdicated any leg to stand on, which allows demagogues like Liz and Bern to rightly demonize them. Doesn't take a much to get to that 27k. I was in the hospital this summer for five days and it came to north of 30k. No surgeries involved.
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Post by NOTTHOR on Oct 23, 2019 11:55:20 GMT -6
(1) I'd wager that you accrue substantially less than 27K in medical expenses per annum. Assuming that, you're subsidizing someone else...but they're also either grossly overpaying or underpaying. (2) So...what people REALLY need is reasonable, predictable premium expenses that cover catastrophes with a reasonable deductible that doesn't discourage preventative care. We're probably looking at a situation where the government may have to step in as the reinsurer of last resort for these catastrophic events because they seem to distort the entire calculus. On point (1), you have to take the money from where it is. I have a buddy who is an ER doctor in Chicago. He said close to half the people rolling through had no insurance and were judgment proof. He said this number has skyrocketed bince he started work in the early '90's and that a rapidly growing percentage were folks of, um, I'm not sure what the politically correct way to say this is, they were of questionable documentation status. I think as the rich have shifted a lot of lower end jobs toward that group, profits have gone up and the media has taken orders from their masters to say "you don't want to pay $7 for a pound of chicken, do you?" Fact is, there's no such thing as a free lunch and I think a lot of the profit/cost savings that have been recognized by that type of labor market have been shifted elsewhere, like health care and local school taxes. Of course, the Boomers are just starting to really soak the system, too, so I don't want to imply that there is just one driver. On point (2), this was common before the old GOP plan/Obamacare took effect. My firm offered people a $10k deductible catastrophe plan that was damned near free. Then came the 900 page monstrosity law the insurance industry wrote and had their whores in the DNC push through (I'm sure the RINOs would have done the same had they had power). That made those catastrophe plans effectively illegal and pushed everyone into high deductible plans that cost $2k per month. There is no reason for a reasonably healthy young person to have a Cadillac health insurance plan so long as they can self-insure anything below a fucking catastrophe. But the insurance companies demanded that everyone be forced into one size fits all Chevy Plans that cost as much as a fucking Cadillac. In exchange, the benevolent insurers traded their ability to make insane profits for what is effectively a 20% cap on overhead (as they define it) and profits. Anyway, a government run re-insurance pool on catastrophes actually seems like a reasonable idea, and would probably be imminently more workable than anything these DNC candidates or Trump would actually implement. Oh, and another thing, if they implemented it, I'd like to see them take the opportunity to put a fucking cap on admin salaries within hospitals that get government funding. "Hey asshole siphoning $2 million out of the hospital - you think you're really worth $2 million? Then fucking quit and find another job that pays $2 million. Bisch."
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Post by GhostMod 5000 on Oct 23, 2019 12:15:12 GMT -6
The entire system is a giant hydraheaded clusterfuck. There is no rationality to it, be it coverage or cost. You're not really paying according to actuarial risk like you are with property/casualty or auto insurance. You're kind of paying into a ponzi scheme. I'd wager that you accrue substantially less than 27K in medical expenses per annum. Assuming that, you're subsidizing someone else...but they're also either grossly overpaying or underpaying. Maybe it averages out over the years, but it probably doesn't, because once you're old, when the shit really hits the fan, Medicare is the primary payer. (Medicare exists, of course, primarily because no private insurer could stay in business insuring older people.) Occasionally those in the "low risk" group encounter a massive blowout health care expense, which of course distorts everything. You get one catastrophic birth event or bad accident and it drops an atom bomb on the actuarial calculus. So...what people REALLY need is reasonable, predictable premium expenses that cover catastrophes with a reasonable deductible that doesn't discourage preventative care. We're probably looking at a situation where the government may have to step in as the reinsurer of last resort for these catastrophic events because they seem to distort the entire calculus. HOWEVER Private insurers, and their cunt CEOs with their yachts and mansions obtained by denying coverage to sick children, have been such terrible actors and prolific grifters that they've abdicated any leg to stand on, which allows demagogues like Liz and Bern to rightly demonize them. Doesn't take a much to get to that 27k. I was in the hospital this summer for five days and it came to north of 30k. No surgeries involved. Like a Holiday Inn where they charge you $6,000 a night
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Post by Presidential Immunity Cock on Oct 23, 2019 12:41:57 GMT -6
The entire system is a giant hydraheaded clusterfuck. There is no rationality to it, be it coverage or cost. You're not really paying according to actuarial risk like you are with property/casualty or auto insurance. You're kind of paying into a ponzi scheme. I'd wager that you accrue substantially less than 27K in medical expenses per annum. Assuming that, you're subsidizing someone else...but they're also either grossly overpaying or underpaying. Maybe it averages out over the years, but it probably doesn't, because once you're old, when the shit really hits the fan, Medicare is the primary payer. (Medicare exists, of course, primarily because no private insurer could stay in business insuring older people.) Occasionally those in the "low risk" group encounter a massive blowout health care expense, which of course distorts everything. You get one catastrophic birth event or bad accident and it drops an atom bomb on the actuarial calculus. So...what people REALLY need is reasonable, predictable premium expenses that cover catastrophes with a reasonable deductible that doesn't discourage preventative care. We're probably looking at a situation where the government may have to step in as the reinsurer of last resort for these catastrophic events because they seem to distort the entire calculus. HOWEVER Private insurers, and their cunt CEOs with their yachts and mansions obtained by denying coverage to sick children, have been such terrible actors and prolific grifters that they've abdicated any leg to stand on, which allows demagogues like Liz and Bern to rightly demonize them. Doesn't take a much to get to that 27k. I was in the hospital this summer for five days and it came to north of 30k. No surgeries involved. When I had my rotator cuff surgery and bicep repair at the same time, the discounted rate that my insurance paid was just a bit over 40k. And that was an outpatient surgery too. The non discounted price was around 67k if I recall correctly, but only proles with no insurance get charged that. And they ain't paying it either
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Post by thunderhawk on Oct 23, 2019 17:44:48 GMT -6
Private insurance pre Obamacare was even moar of a twisted death racket than it is now. Nobody should ever want to return to that fucking shitshow. America doesn’t need ghoulish recission specialists who spend their lives dedicated to fucking over premium paying policyholders at the first sign of a possibly expensive health event.
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Post by Stan's Field on Oct 23, 2019 19:27:55 GMT -6
Private insurance pre Obamacare was even moar of a twisted death racket than it is now. Nobody should ever want to return to that fucking shitshow. America doesn’t need ghoulish recission specialists who spend their lives dedicated to fucking over premium paying policyholders at the first sign of a possibly expensive health event. Let's mix business and healthcare. What could go wrong...
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Post by Stan's Field on Oct 23, 2019 19:35:46 GMT -6
Private insurance pre Obamacare was even moar of a twisted death racket than it is now. Nobody should ever want to return to that fucking shitshow. America doesn’t need ghoulish recission specialists who spend their lives dedicated to fucking over premium paying policyholders at the first sign of a possibly expensive health event. Let's mix business and healthcare. What could go wrong... Seriously, anyone who thinks their healthcare plan was so much better pre Obama might want to question their obvious desire to get bent over. An ass fuckin is an ass fuckin. Shit needs reformed. Who the fuck can look at their insurance and say "man, I feel treated fairly here. This is affordable and effective and will serve my needs beyond a shadow of a doubt.
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Post by thunderhawk on Oct 23, 2019 22:56:13 GMT -6
Private insurance pre Obamacare was even moar of a twisted death racket than it is now. Nobody should ever want to return to that fucking shitshow. America doesn’t need ghoulish recission specialists who spend their lives dedicated to fucking over premium paying policyholders at the first sign of a possibly expensive health event. Let's mix business and healthcare. What could go wrong... The inherent conflict and perverse incentive at the heart of private health insurance is indeed a terrible one; insurers make profits by limiting claims payments. That's the fucking Iron Law of Insurance: Intake > Output The calculation really doesn't change with publicly financed "insurance" like Medicare; it simply removes the profit motive. Insurers are just part of the problem, and not even the largest one. Cost is. Cost is the shitting elephant in the room.
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Post by LansingHawk on Oct 24, 2019 12:01:10 GMT -6
Try buying health insurance on the individual market when you hit 60. Medica is only show in town in Iowa. For lowest plan they had two years ago was going to cost the wife and I $2400 a month. Went with Christian Healthcare Ministries. Cost around $400/ month for both of us. $500 deductible for each incident, but if you can talk the provider into any discounts it comes of your discount first. Only problem so far is getting the proper paaperwork from the hospital. An you have to collect all this info and submit it. So if it all goes right I should have nothing to pay out of pocket as we got $5k in discounts.
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Post by twinlaker on Oct 24, 2019 12:21:59 GMT -6
Try buying health insurance on the individual market when you hit 60. Medica is only show in town in Iowa. For lowest plan they had two years ago was going to cost the wife and I $2400 a month. Went with Christian Healthcare Ministries. Cost around $400/ month for both of us. $500 deductible for each incident, but if you can talk the provider into any discounts it comes of your discount first. Only problem so far is getting the proper paaperwork from the hospital. An you have to collect all this info and submit it. So if it all goes right I should have nothing to pay out of pocket as we got $5k in discounts. 2400 claims will buy a whole lot of gin and tonics 😜
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