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Post by Incogayno. on Aug 27, 2014 16:15:21 GMT -6
I received a notice from an insurance company to sign over an annuity that I am the beneficiary of. My uncle passed away and the state is asking for it. What happens if I do not sign for it?
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Post by NOTTHOR on Aug 27, 2014 16:30:14 GMT -6
Sign over to who? This doesn't make any sense. Are they asking you to sign a W-4? The insurer needs a W-4 in order to cut you a check so they can give you a 1099 when you get paid the proceeds. When you say "state" do you mean liek the probate court? You should read wtf they want and figure out why and if you can't understand it, get a lawyer in the state where the annuity is located. When did your uncle die? Be careful because the states are figuring out that through escheat or unclaimed property laws they can get a lot of money for absolutely free (if property remains unclaimed for some period following a death, it goes to the state and then you have a limited period to claim it from the state and if you fail to claim it, it irrevocably becomes the state's property). "Sign over" sounds really fucking weird, though, brah.
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Post by Incogayno. on Aug 27, 2014 16:46:42 GMT -6
Sign over to the executor of the estate. This is in Iowa. Basically money is owed to the state for care of him before he died. The insurance company wants me to sign that I refuse payment of the annuity. The Iowa District court has sent a notice to the insurance company letting them know that per iowa law, the annuity is due to the state for debt.
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Post by NOTTHOR on Aug 27, 2014 17:01:55 GMT -6
Sign over to the executor of the estate. This is in Iowa. Basically money is owed to the state for care of him before he died. The insurance company wants me to sign that I refuse payment of the annuity. The Iowa District court has sent a notice to the insurance company letting them know that per iowa law, the annuity is due to the state for debt. NOT LEGAL ADVICE Hmm, interesting. So he went on Medicaid and the state has the first claim on his estate? I'm not sure, but I just ran it through the google and this thing came up - www.iowa-estates.com/estate_recovery.pdf do control f and search for annuity. It says: 4. Annuities, POD’s, TOD’s, IRA’s, IPERS, etc.– An annuity is not life insurance but is rather an investment to create income by payments over fixed intervals of time. Although there may be a “beneficiary” designation, the “beneficiary” is not entitled to the funds if there is an outstanding medical assistance debt and the deceased recipient had an interest in the funds at the moment before death. An annuity may be assigned to IDHS and received by the Estate Recovery Program or a commuted value may be used for reimbursement of medical assistance. The funds in an annuity are subject to the medical assistance debt just as a bank account or other investment. I'd ask ThunderHawk bince he's an Iowa lawyer, but a layman's reading makes it look liek you're screwed and if you don't sign it over you could just be buying a world of hurt in terms of getting sued and having to appear in court to try to defend it and shit. How much you talking about? If the guy is in that estate recovery phase, I presume it ain't a lot, but the insurance shit is really complicated and I'd check with a local lawyer before you waive your rights to it because it might be bullshit.
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Post by Incogayno. on Aug 27, 2014 17:05:17 GMT -6
Ahh I had a feeling. It's only about 10k.
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Post by Stan's Field on Aug 27, 2014 17:07:56 GMT -6
Sign over to the executor of the estate. This is in Iowa. Basically money is owed to the state for care of him before he died. The insurance company wants me to sign that I refuse payment of the annuity. The Iowa District court has sent a notice to the insurance company letting them know that per iowa law, the annuity is due to the state for debt. NOT LEGAL ADVICE Hmm, interesting. So he went on Medicaid and the state has the first claim on his estate? I'm not sure, but I just ran it through the google and this thing came up - www.iowa-estates.com/estate_recovery.pdf do control f and search for annuity. It says: 4. Annuities, POD’s, TOD’s, IRA’s, IPERS, etc.– An annuity is not life insurance but is rather an investment to create income by payments over fixed intervals of time. Although there may be a “beneficiary” designation, the “beneficiary” is not entitled to the funds if there is an outstanding medical assistance debt and the deceased recipient had an interest in the funds at the moment before death. An annuity may be assigned to IDHS and received by the Estate Recovery Program or a commuted value may be used for reimbursement of medical assistance. The funds in an annuity are subject to the medical assistance debt just as a bank account or other investment. I'd ask ThunderHawk bince he's an Iowa lawyer, but a layman's reading makes it look liek you're screwed and if you don't sign it over you could just be buying a world of hurt in terms of getting sued and having to appear in court to try to defend it and shit. How much you talking about? If the guy is in that estate recovery phase, I presume it ain't a lot, but the insurance shit is really complicated and I'd check with a local lawyer before you waive your rights to it because it might be bullshit. Any clue how the state would handle it if an Uncle owed liek $8,500, but the annuity was for $10,000? Would they demand it all be signed over? Or simply demand the exact amount owed?
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Post by Incogayno. on Aug 27, 2014 17:09:13 GMT -6
NOT LEGAL ADVICE Hmm, interesting. So he went on Medicaid and the state has the first claim on his estate? I'm not sure, but I just ran it through the google and this thing came up - www.iowa-estates.com/estate_recovery.pdf do control f and search for annuity. It says: 4. Annuities, POD’s, TOD’s, IRA’s, IPERS, etc.– An annuity is not life insurance but is rather an investment to create income by payments over fixed intervals of time. Although there may be a “beneficiary” designation, the “beneficiary” is not entitled to the funds if there is an outstanding medical assistance debt and the deceased recipient had an interest in the funds at the moment before death. An annuity may be assigned to IDHS and received by the Estate Recovery Program or a commuted value may be used for reimbursement of medical assistance. The funds in an annuity are subject to the medical assistance debt just as a bank account or other investment. I'd ask ThunderHawk bince he's an Iowa lawyer, but a layman's reading makes it look liek you're screwed and if you don't sign it over you could just be buying a world of hurt in terms of getting sued and having to appear in court to try to defend it and shit. How much you talking about? If the guy is in that estate recovery phase, I presume it ain't a lot, but the insurance shit is really complicated and I'd check with a local lawyer before you waive your rights to it because it might be bullshit. Any clue how the state would handle it if an Uncle owed liek $8,500, but the annuity was for $10,000? Would they demand it all be signed over? Or simply demand the exact amount owed? LOL stfu BTW he owned about 500k to the state for medical care.....
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Post by Stan's Field on Aug 27, 2014 17:11:16 GMT -6
Any clue how the state would handle it if an Uncle owed liek $8,500, but the annuity was for $10,000? Would they demand it all be signed over? Or simply demand the exact amount owed? LOL stfu BTW he owned about 500k to the state for medical care..... STFU?
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Post by Incogayno. on Aug 27, 2014 17:14:27 GMT -6
LOL stfu BTW he owned about 500k to the state for medical care..... STFU?
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Post by NOTTHOR on Aug 27, 2014 17:14:34 GMT -6
Yeah, my gut feeling is you're fucked because whatever hospital or nursing home he ran out the clock out in probably billed the shit out of him, but $10k is enough that would induce me to ask around on a more formal basis. If you poke around that iowa-estates.com site, it seems like annuities get treated like bank accounts rather than life insurance policies and the general rule on cash-like assets is that Medicaid gets the first recovery because a person has to be basically destitute to qualify for Medicaid in the first instance. Is that annuity basically the only asset that is even recoverable? Is there anything else in the estate? Who is the executor? Is it a close family member, cousin or elderly aunt that you don't want to piss off by fucking around?
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Post by Incogayno. on Aug 27, 2014 17:17:03 GMT -6
Yeah, my gut feeling is you're fucked because whatever hospital or nursing home he ran out the clock out in probably billed the shit out of him, but $10k is enough that would induce me to ask around on a more formal basis. If you poke around that iowa-estates.com site, it seems like annuities get treated like bank accounts rather than life insurance policies and the general rule on cash-like assets is that Medicaid gets the first recovery because a person has to be basically destitute to qualify for Medicaid in the first instance. Is that annuity basically the only asset that is even recoverable? Is there anything else in the estate? Who is the executor? Is it a close family member, cousin or elderly aunt that you don't want to piss off by fucking around? There is also a house that he owned half of. The executor is his brother who owns the other half. I am an asshole though, so not too concerned about pissing them off as they are fucking my mother, his sister over.
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Post by NOTTHOR on Aug 27, 2014 17:21:12 GMT -6
Whoa, he owed $500k? Man, there are gonna be a shitload of stories liek this of Baby Boomers expecting to get $2 million split 3 ways and when the shit hits the fan and these estates have to pay down final year expenses folks are gonna wind up with liek $50k a piece. My stepfather's mom was seriously injured in an uninsurable accident and she's burning down the estate right now. Her kids (other than my stepdad, who luckily is her POA) are fucking jackals. It's hearing shit liek that those stories that makes me think assisted suicide is a really fucking bad idea.
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Post by thunderhawk on Aug 27, 2014 17:24:04 GMT -6
Medicaid is relentless in enforcing their liens, and you're on their radar. If this annuity is part of the estate, well , like I said...radar is engaged , and they're locked in. You'll want to chat with an estate attorney.
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Post by NOTTHOR on Aug 27, 2014 17:26:23 GMT -6
Yeah, my gut feeling is you're fucked because whatever hospital or nursing home he ran out the clock out in probably billed the shit out of him, but $10k is enough that would induce me to ask around on a more formal basis. If you poke around that iowa-estates.com site, it seems like annuities get treated like bank accounts rather than life insurance policies and the general rule on cash-like assets is that Medicaid gets the first recovery because a person has to be basically destitute to qualify for Medicaid in the first instance. Is that annuity basically the only asset that is even recoverable? Is there anything else in the estate? Who is the executor? Is it a close family member, cousin or elderly aunt that you don't want to piss off by fucking around? There is also a house that he owned half of. The executor is his brother who owns the other half. I am an asshole though, so not too concerned about pissing them off as they are fucking my mother, his sister over. Well, in that case, it wouldn't hurt you to call a lawyer in Iowa. I'm as worthless as tits on a boar on stuff liek this, Thunder probably is, too, bince when you take the class called "Trusts and Estates" in law school they spend 98% of the time talking about fucking Rule Against Perpetuities or some other arcane shit that don't fucking matter. How is your mom getting fucked over? Were they supposed to cut her in on assets when your grandparents died and they didn't?
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Post by Incogayno. on Aug 27, 2014 17:26:52 GMT -6
Whoa, he owed $500k? Man, there are gonna be a shitload of stories liek this of Baby Boomers expecting to get $2 million split 3 ways and when the shit hits the fan and these estates have to pay down final year expenses folks are gonna wind up with liek $50k a piece. My stepfather's mom was seriously injured in an uninsurable accident and she's burning down the estate right now. Her kids (other than my stepdad, who luckily is her POA) are fucking jackals. It's hearing shit liek that those stories that makes me think assisted suicide is a really fucking bad idea. Yeah he was in a nursing home for a couple of years due to the emphysema. Medicare would not pay for in home treatment so he was stuck in a shithole till he died.
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Post by NOTTHOR on Aug 27, 2014 17:30:02 GMT -6
Medicaid is relentless in enforcing their liens, and you're on their radar. If this annuity is part of the estate, well , like I said...radar is engaged , and they're locked in. You'll want to chat with an estate attorney. Yep. It's weird because the remainderman interest in an annuity is technically not part of an estate, but it looks liek Iowa law has a clawback provision whereby they say Medicaid's lien attaches to the life interest so there is no remainderman interest. I bet Shelly Kurtz could answer this shit in liek 3.4 seconds, but bince he don't poast on the Wasteland, I'd echo Thunder's thoughts of talking to an estate attorney in Iowa. My dad knows a bunch, but I don't personally know any, but I can ask for some names if needed.
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Post by livingintheusa on Aug 27, 2014 17:32:13 GMT -6
It is my understanding that Iowa is one of the few states that has this type of legislation that gets enforced. I would really like to know how it got on the books and how normal citizens benefit. My brother is trapped this. He is on Medicaid or some variant and all he has to his name is a house in need of repair and an annuity he purchased with money my parents left him . On his death the state will go after both and nothing will go to his children.
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Post by NotMyKid on Aug 27, 2014 17:33:59 GMT -6
Whoa, he owed $500k? Man, there are gonna be a shitload of stories liek this of Baby Boomers expecting to get $2 million split 3 ways and when the shit hits the fan and these estates have to pay down final year expenses folks are gonna wind up with liek $50k a piece. My stepfather's mom was seriously injured in an uninsurable accident and she's burning down the estate right now. Her kids (other than my stepdad, who luckily is her POA) are fucking jackals. It's hearing shit liek that those stories that makes me think assisted suicide is a really fucking bad idea. See this shit all the time. Makes me want to punch some fuckers in the face. Seeing/Hearing people looking forward to their spouse/parents/relatives/inlaws dying so they can get some money is fucking sickening.
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Post by NOTTHOR on Aug 27, 2014 17:34:11 GMT -6
Whoa, he owed $500k? Man, there are gonna be a shitload of stories liek this of Baby Boomers expecting to get $2 million split 3 ways and when the shit hits the fan and these estates have to pay down final year expenses folks are gonna wind up with liek $50k a piece. My stepfather's mom was seriously injured in an uninsurable accident and she's burning down the estate right now. Her kids (other than my stepdad, who luckily is her POA) are fucking jackals. It's hearing shit liek that those stories that makes me think assisted suicide is a really fucking bad idea. Yeah he was in a nursing home for a couple of years due to the emphysema. Medicare would not pay for in home treatment so he was stuck in a shithole till he died. Awful. Sorry to hear that. The Medicaid qualified nursing homes are fucking terrible and the bills they generate are absurd because they maybe get lucky on 1 out 10 estates and find some sort of asset so they need a majorly inflated bill to try to cover the costs for the 9 estates that have nothing in them. If I am ever in that situation, my biggest hope is to have enough funds to buy into a decent nursing home facility.
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Post by Incogayno. on Aug 27, 2014 17:35:02 GMT -6
It is my understanding that Iowa is one of the few states that has this type of legislation that gets enforced. I would really like to know how it got on the books and how normal citizens benefit. My brother is trapped this. He is on Medicaid or some variant and all he has to his name is a house in need of repair and an annuity he purchased with money my parents left him . On his death the state will go after both and nothing will go to his children. Thats how it sounds. The state is only getting half of the house owned by my uncle. If it is put in an official will though, I believe there are ways to keep the annuity from going to the state.
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Post by NOTTHOR on Aug 27, 2014 17:37:37 GMT -6
Whoa, he owed $500k? Man, there are gonna be a shitload of stories liek this of Baby Boomers expecting to get $2 million split 3 ways and when the shit hits the fan and these estates have to pay down final year expenses folks are gonna wind up with liek $50k a piece. My stepfather's mom was seriously injured in an uninsurable accident and she's burning down the estate right now. Her kids (other than my stepdad, who luckily is her POA) are fucking jackals. It's hearing shit liek that those stories that makes me think assisted suicide is a really fucking bad idea. See this shit all the time. Makes me want to punch some fuckers in the face. Seeing/Hearing people looking forward to their spouse/parents/relatives/inlaws dying so they can get some money is fucking sickening. Even worse than that is hearing about people wanting to cut corners on treatment, physical therapy or living conditions to preserve assets at the expense of their parent.
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Post by Incogayno. on Aug 27, 2014 17:37:49 GMT -6
So, basically, I say fuck it and sign it over or I approach an estate attorney to see if there is another way?
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Post by Incogayno. on Aug 27, 2014 17:39:23 GMT -6
See this shit all the time. Makes me want to punch some fuckers in the face. Seeing/Hearing people looking forward to their spouse/parents/relatives/inlaws dying so they can get some money is fucking sickening. Even worse than that is hearing about people wanting to cut corners on treatment, physical therapy or living conditions to preserve assets at the expense of their parent. People do fucked up shit for money. Even just a little.
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Post by NOTTHOR on Aug 27, 2014 17:42:58 GMT -6
It is my understanding that Iowa is one of the few states that has this type of legislation that gets enforced. I would really like to know how it got on the books and how normal citizens benefit. My brother is trapped this. He is on Medicaid or some variant and all he has to his name is a house in need of repair and an annuity he purchased with money my parents left him . On his death the state will go after both and nothing will go to his children. I think it's relatively common, but I don't know how many states have resources to pursue it. Iowa's government is pretty well run in the grand scheme of things. It benefits people because Medicaid is for the truly destitute. To put it into Team America terms, there are all kinds of assholes (people with assets) who game the system to get the pussies (their fellow taxpayers) to foot their medical bills so the government has to be a dick and fuck the assholes. I think the moral of the story is if you want to leave assets, your best bet is probably a life insurance policy rather than an annuity because despite the annuity sales pitch of "PROBATE FREE" annuity assets can be grabbed. But annuities pay better commissions than many life insurance policies and so that may be why your brother got put into one.
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Post by NOTTHOR on Aug 27, 2014 17:45:56 GMT -6
So, basically, I say fuck it and sign it over or I approach an estate attorney to see if there is another way? Dude, for $10k I would definitely at least reach out to an expert in Iowa estate law. It might cost you half an hour of his/her time (probably $200) but they'll know more about it than anyone on a board. Based on the link I gave you above, I sure as shit wouldn't be buying a new Miata with the money, though.
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