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Post by NOTTHOR on Feb 16, 2009 14:01:50 GMT -6
(1) I may be one of the very few on the board that gets to watch daytime tv, due to my situation and I very well may get teased for this, but on Dr. Phil earlier this week he had a couple on there in their 40's that were on the verge of divorce. They had 2 sons, both into recreational use of drugs, mainly pot, and the 15 year old said, "I smoke pot every day and I love it. I have NO PLANS for my future." He got it from friends but any guesses how he would support that habit if his supply chain dried up??? (2) Will I be pushing for the prohibition of cigarettes? I must say the State of Iowa took one very nice step towards that earlier this year. No complaints from me I will admit. My daughters both have asthma, the childhood kind, that they grow out of hopefully. We were looking for a van last week and our salesman was an obvious smoker. We took it for a test drive and he sat behind me and I thought I would puke. Cigarettes no doubt cause more harm than pot, I would admit that, but the cigarette industry is big I would guess in jobs down south and the tobacco lobby could disappear tomorrow with no complaint from me. (1) OMG - a 15 year old with no plans??? No way. I'd say that he's, gasp, normal. I had no plans at 15. None. Did you have plans? Did you follow through with them? (2) Why do you hate freedom so much? |
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Post by roxxstar on Feb 16, 2009 16:00:45 GMT -6
For the record Jesus, I have just as big of a problem with drunk drivers, alcohol abusers/of women, cigarettes as I do pot. Are you saying driving drunk and beating women is just as bad as smoking pot? |
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Post by twinegarden on Feb 17, 2009 0:13:40 GMT -6
I may be one of the very few on the board that gets to watch daytime tv, due to my situation and I very well may get teased for this, but on Dr. Phil earlier this week he had a couple on there in their 40's that were on the verge of divorce. They had 2 sons, both into recreational use of drugs, mainly pot, and the 15 year old said, "I smoke pot every day and I love it. I have NO PLANS for my future." He got it from friends but any guesses how he would support that habit if his supply chain dried up??? Who is to say that the reason for the 15 year old kids apathy (which is pretty standard in alot of 15 year old kids) didn't resort from his parents getting a divorce. Maybe problems at home made him want to self medicate by getting high and going to the movies with his friends. Maybe in this case we should outlaw divorce because that let to the kids willingness to experiment with marijuana, by your logic divorce could be a "gateway" experience that will lead to drug and alcohol abuse. I guess the next thing to do would be to outlaw divorces. Imagine all of the ill effects that would have on society. Then the only thing to do to solve that problem would be to outlaw marriage because they lead to divorces. I think it's kind of funny how eager some people are to scapegoat weed as the root of so many of our problems. |
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Post by Master Blaster on Feb 17, 2009 2:39:51 GMT -6
Once again we are falling into the generalizations arguments. I've met plenty of 15 year olds focused on what it is they want to do. The argument that most 15 year olds are lazy is crap. In fact at 15 I was working a job trying to figure out how best to get into the Navy. Hada a friend that was taking flying lessons. Had another that spent a lot of time trying to play the guitar. Just a matter of creating the right environment for kids to develop those interests.
I don't look at weed as the creator of our problems, but I do consider it to be a catalyst in many situations. I definitely don't look at it as an improvement in somebodies life, like it is making them a more rounded person. Maybe the question ought to be how will legalizing pot make our society better? It'll cut the number of prisoners and maybe increase the tax revenue. However I'll bet that it'll drive up the cost of health insurance as well. So what benefit does it bring to the table that will make a real difference or improve all our lives that make it worth legalizing? And please don't say it'll bring freedom of choice. If the potheads really wanted that, then they would organize and get it legalized. The real truth is they want to smoke without worrying about getting busted or hassled.
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Post by Iowafan1 on Feb 17, 2009 6:15:02 GMT -6
Once again we are falling into the generalizations arguments. I've met plenty of 15 year olds focused on what it is they want to do. The argument that most 15 year olds are lazy is crap. In fact at 15 I was working a job trying to figure out how best to get into the Navy. Hada a friend that was taking flying lessons. Had another that spent a lot of time trying to play the guitar. Just a matter of creating the right environment for kids to develop those interests. I don't look at weed as the creator of our problems, but I do consider it to be a catalyst in many situations. I definitely don't look at it as an improvement in somebodies life, like it is making them a more rounded person. Maybe the question ought to be how will legalizing pot make our society better? It'll cut the number of prisoners and maybe increase the tax revenue. However I'll bet that it'll drive up the cost of health insurance as well. So what benefit does it bring to the table that will make a real difference or improve all our lives that make it worth legalizing? And please don't say it'll bring freedom of choice. If the potheads really wanted that, then they would organize and get it legalized. The real truth is they want to smoke without worrying about getting busted or hassled. Master Chief....you done good. The reality is that if pot was as non-destructive....or even a neutral substance for that matter, drug tests would not be required for new and continued employment by virtually every legitimate company in the Country. It costs these companies a fortune to have these tests run and the reasons for the tests are written in blood. Despite some of the arguments I have read in this thread pertaining to "some of the most productive workers smoke pot", I have seen just the opposite. Of the employees we have terminated for positive results on pot use, I can honestly say none of them were particularly reliable. Chronic absences, tardiness and sleeping while they are supposed to be on the clock working. Before I hear the argument that non pot users are guilty of the same, let me save you the time....you're right, just not to the same degree. The other argument I am sure I will see is that pot is no worse than alcohol.....again, I don't believe it, but let's just save the argument and say that is true. Why would any rational person advocate for legalizing yet one more brain distorting substance to the general public? It makes no sense. Every once in awhile, the "Just say no" slogan is what needs to be preached. The fact that these companies spend an incredible amount of money to test for marijuana says everything that needs to be said about the past experiences of pot smoking employees. Money talks.....pot users walk. |
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Post by Saggitariutt Jefferspin (ith) on Feb 17, 2009 8:46:40 GMT -6
I love have you state opinions (starting sentences with "I think", "I consider", "I'll bet", or the best, "I don't believe it".
Go back, read the my posts from government and university studies that go beyond just opinion. Let me know when it actually sinks in and and we can cut through the bullshit pre-conceived notions of the evils of pot.
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Post by twinegarden on Feb 17, 2009 10:25:20 GMT -6
Money talks.....pot users walk. For a guy who is so concerned about wasting taxpayers money and the threat of big government you really seem to be ignoring any economically based support for the deregulation of weed. |
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Post by NOTTHOR on Feb 17, 2009 10:37:18 GMT -6
Money talks.....pot users walk. For a guy who is so concerned about wasting taxpayers money and the threat of big government you really seem to be ignoring any economically based support for the deregulation of weed. It's nothing more than liberal fascism in the mold of Henry Ford. If guys like Iowafan didn't loathe freedom, he would understand that in addition to some hippie's right to smoke the stuff, his company would have every right to exclude said hippie from employment or pay said hippie less or keep said hippie away from heavy equipment. The problem this poses for the industrialist is that if the industrialist has a pre-conceived notion that someone who smoked MJ on Friday night and then operates equipment on Monday is dangerous, well then the pool of "non-dangerous" workers drops drastically and the price for that labor goes up. God forbid the cost of labor gets driven up due to the market. |
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Post by socal on Feb 17, 2009 10:39:35 GMT -6
Once again we are falling into the generalizations arguments. I've met plenty of 15 year olds focused on what it is they want to do. The argument that most 15 year olds are lazy is crap. In fact at 15 I was working a job trying to figure out how best to get into the Navy. Hada a friend that was taking flying lessons. Had another that spent a lot of time trying to play the guitar. Just a matter of creating the right environment for kids to develop those interests. I don't look at weed as the creator of our problems, but I do consider it to be a catalyst in many situations. I definitely don't look at it as an improvement in somebodies life, like it is making them a more rounded person. Maybe the question ought to be how will legalizing pot make our society better? It'll cut the number of prisoners and maybe increase the tax revenue. However I'll bet that it'll drive up the cost of health insurance as well. So what benefit does it bring to the table that will make a real difference or improve all our lives that make it worth legalizing? And please don't say it'll bring freedom of choice. If the potheads really wanted that, then they would organize and get it legalized. The real truth is they want to smoke without worrying about getting busted or hassled. Master Chief....you done good. The reality is that if pot was as non-destructive....or even a neutral substance for that matter, drug tests would not be required for new and continued employment by virtually every legitimate company in the Country. It costs these companies a fortune to have these tests run and the reasons for the tests are written in blood. Despite some of the arguments I have read in this thread pertaining to "some of the most productive workers smoke pot", I have seen just the opposite. Of the employees we have terminated for positive results on pot use, I can honestly say none of them were particularly reliable. Chronic absences, tardiness and sleeping while they are supposed to be on the clock working. Before I hear the argument that non pot users are guilty of the same, let me save you the time....you're right, just not to the same degree. The other argument I am sure I will see is that pot is no worse than alcohol.....again, I don't believe it, but let's just save the argument and say that is true. Why would any rational person advocate for legalizing yet one more brain distorting substance to the general public? It makes no sense. Every once in awhile, the "Just say no" slogan is what needs to be preached. The fact that these companies spend an incredible amount of money to test for marijuana says everything that needs to be said about the past experiences of pot smoking employees. Money talks.....pot users walk. It's a wonder how this country ever could have been formed & thrived for 100+ years until Opium and liquor were outlawed in the early 20th century... I guess the rest of us are thankful we progressed enough to not practice other similar era items like medical genital manipulation for female "hysteria". |
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Post by Iowafan1 on Feb 17, 2009 11:10:16 GMT -6
Money talks.....pot users walk. For a guy who is so concerned about wasting taxpayers money and the threat of big government you really seem to be ignoring any economically based support for the deregulation of weed. Look.....if you feel that strongly about it, go fight for it to be legalized. I am only stating the case from a practical point of view, in that there are no benefits whatsoever in using this garbage. I have a little more concern about the welfare of children in this Country than to advocate something being okay that isn't okay. You absolutely managed to disregard the practical effects that are induced by users trying to get or keep a meaningful job. If it gets legalized, I'll abide by the law. In the meantime, it is illegal and, in my opinion as well as the opinion of the majority, rightfully so. Ralphie is correct in that employers can choose to or not to hire pot users into their work place. In the meantime, it is those very same people who are using this garbage who are, by and large, out on their asses in the street with no decent prospects of a successful future. |
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Post by socal on Feb 17, 2009 11:28:45 GMT -6
I have a little more concern about the welfare of children in this Country than to advocate something being okay that isn't okay. The right side of you ass called and said that it had no knowledge that the left side of your ass uses every available opportunity to rail against anything resembling welfare (let alone welfare for children). |
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Post by Iowafan1 on Feb 17, 2009 11:34:16 GMT -6
I have a little more concern about the welfare of children in this Country than to advocate something being okay that isn't okay. The right side of you ass called and said that it had no knowledge that the left side of your ass uses every available opportunity to rail against anything resembling welfare (let alone welfare for children). Therein lies a perfect example of liberal vs. Conservative mindset. You and your liberal brethren believe that welfare is something that is given for nothing. I and my Conservative brethren believe that welfare is what is in the best interest of someone's life.....that being self sufficiency. |
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Post by lpcalihawk on Feb 17, 2009 11:36:15 GMT -6
I have a little more concern about the welfare of children in this Country than to advocate something being okay that isn't okay. The right side of you ass called and said that it had no knowledge that the left side of your ass uses every available opportunity to rail against anything resembling welfare (let alone welfare for children). Save the children from the evil pot-doers. What a joke. |
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Post by lpcalihawk on Feb 17, 2009 11:38:44 GMT -6
The right side of you ass called and said that it had no knowledge that the left side of your ass uses every available opportunity to rail against anything resembling welfare (let alone welfare for children). Shouldn't you be in the unemployment line right now instead of playing on the computer? You are a fucking ass. I hope your company goes belly up. |
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Post by lpcalihawk on Feb 17, 2009 11:42:39 GMT -6
You are a fucking ass. I hope your company goes belly up. Oh, don't get all touchy feely on me man. Thank God your kind will be dying off in about 10 to 20 years. |
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Post by NOTTHOR on Feb 17, 2009 12:20:59 GMT -6
The right side of you ass called and said that it had no knowledge that the left side of your ass uses every available opportunity to rail against anything resembling welfare (let alone welfare for children). Shouldn't you be in the unemployment line right now instead of playing on the computer? Though the Wasteland was formed as a place where we can freely hurl insults at each other and post girly pics and stuff, out of respect for what others are going through, you really shouldn't say stuff like that. It's not cool. Everybody ont this board is probably more or less a fungible piece of human capital, we're all only a few decisions of a client or employer away from being out of work and I don't think it's very Christian to attack someone's job situation right now. |
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Post by twinegarden on Feb 17, 2009 12:24:31 GMT -6
The right side of you ass called and said that it had no knowledge that the left side of your ass uses every available opportunity to rail against anything resembling welfare (let alone welfare for children). Shouldn't you be in the unemployment line right now instead of playing on the computer? I'd have to agree with BTR here, I was actually a little shocked when I read that comment. Kind of like trying to punch someone in the nuts or shooting them in the dick. It's just not right. |
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Post by roxxstar on Feb 17, 2009 12:34:16 GMT -6
The right side of you ass called and said that it had no knowledge that the left side of your ass uses every available opportunity to rail against anything resembling welfare (let alone welfare for children). Shouldn't you be in the unemployment line right now instead of playing on the computer? It's comments like this that illustrate why you suck as a person. |
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Post by Iowafan1 on Feb 17, 2009 12:45:34 GMT -6
You guys were right.....I have deleted the posts and decided to take the high road. Bring on more of the "hater" insults SoCal.
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Post by socal on Feb 17, 2009 13:27:13 GMT -6
The right side of you ass called and said that it had no knowledge that the left side of your ass uses every available opportunity to rail against anything resembling welfare (let alone welfare for children). Therein lies a perfect example of liberal vs. Conservative mindset. You and your liberal brethren believe that welfare is something that is given for nothing. I and my Conservative brethren believe that welfare is what is in the best interest of someone's life.....that being self sufficiency. That would be where you're wrong. As in every situation, there are extreme examples that become the case for the opposition --- that being said, there are countless instances of society aiding those in need. In fact, the main character in a popular religious book often preached the goodness in helping others. I came across what you said after you deleted it... I guess thanks are in order for your retraction, but the turd smell contained in your thoughts still remains. While I'm not eager to have to stand in those unemployment lines starting April 1, it is what it is. As a fairly successful wage earner for all of my adult life - and the sole earner for most of the time my kids have been alive, that date represents a looming chasm. Besides the 70 people I see at work everyday, I talk to my next door neighbor that was laid off 2/7 from his electrical engineering job & the guy 3 doors down that will be unemployed at the end of the month - and realize that most of them will have things a lot harder than I will. The only respite is the knowledge that if my kids get sick during this time, the society we live in will help... at least until the system becomes overwhelmed for lack of funding. When I pre-rationalize being able to feed my children by stocking our cupboards** with ramen noodles, it's because of the headlines that States like California & Kansas can no longer pay their bills. I cannot change the way you think. You must come to the conclusion yourself. Either societies should care for the people within them, or we will revert to the days where the person with the biggest-bluntest club gets dibs. So mock those that stand in line because they made the "choice" to have children and feel an obligation to feed them. But understand that the statements of a person that would make Jesus shake his head in disbelief, are kind of low on the list of priorities. **-assuming the severance/savings/unemployment can continue to pay our very modest mortgage that is paying for the cupboards. |
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Post by mattahawk on Feb 17, 2009 13:32:43 GMT -6
When I said 'bottom of the barrell', I meant your argument, not your overall situation. Sorry I didn't clarify that. That's ok. I was teasing you anyways. I have no problem agreeing to disagree and I am not judging you either. I have wayyyyy to many issues myself to be doing that. I am actually for medicinal use of marijuana. My mom could have used it going through her chemo treatments about 12 years ago. Let me clarify that last part. I don't know if I am for medicinal use of weed but I could probably be talked into it. |
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Post by Saggitariutt Jefferspin (ith) on Feb 17, 2009 13:38:28 GMT -6
When I said 'bottom of the barrell', I meant your argument, not your overall situation. Sorry I didn't clarify that. That's ok. I was teasing you anyways. I have no problem agreeing to disagree and I am not judging you either. I have wayyyyy to many issues myself to be doing that. I am actually for medicinal use of marijuana. My mom could have used it going through her chemo treatments about 12 years ago. Good deal...I looked back on that comment and cringed. I was hoping you didn't think I meant it like that.  |
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Post by iammrhawkeyes on Feb 17, 2009 14:19:08 GMT -6
I definitely don't look at it as an improvement in somebodies life, like it is making them a more rounded person. Maybe the question ought to be how will legalizing pot make our society better? It'll cut the number of prisoners and maybe increase the tax revenue. However I'll bet that it'll drive up the cost of health insurance as well. So what benefit does it bring to the table that will make a real difference or improve all our lives that make it worth legalizing? How do cigs and booze make our society better or improve our lives? Do they contribute to health care costs? |
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Post by mattahawk on Feb 17, 2009 14:42:23 GMT -6
(1) I may be one of the very few on the board that gets to watch daytime tv, due to my situation and I very well may get teased for this, but on Dr. Phil earlier this week he had a couple on there in their 40's that were on the verge of divorce. They had 2 sons, both into recreational use of drugs, mainly pot, and the 15 year old said, "I smoke pot every day and I love it. I have NO PLANS for my future." He got it from friends but any guesses how he would support that habit if his supply chain dried up??? (2) Will I be pushing for the prohibition of cigarettes? I must say the State of Iowa took one very nice step towards that earlier this year. No complaints from me I will admit. My daughters both have asthma, the childhood kind, that they grow out of hopefully. We were looking for a van last week and our salesman was an obvious smoker. We took it for a test drive and he sat behind me and I thought I would puke. Cigarettes no doubt cause more harm than pot, I would admit that, but the cigarette industry is big I would guess in jobs down south and the tobacco lobby could disappear tomorrow with no complaint from me. (1) OMG - a 15 year old with no plans??? No way. I'd say that he's, gasp, normal. I had no plans at 15. None. Did you have plans? Did you follow through with them? (2) Why do you hate freedom so much? 1) I know plenty of 15 year olds that are doing something with their lives, at that young age. Some have jobs and are working in whatever odd job they can do. Some are in every sport they can sign up for. Some are getting great grades and still in all sorts of activities like band, choir etc. Some volunteer cleaning up ditches or at nursing homes. I did in fact have plans at that age, and no it is safe to say I did not follow up. I am very thankful to say it had nothing to do with weed but my own inability to buckle down with the books. 2) huh? Jesus, if you were smoking pot in a park or walking down the street and got caught, it would probably rank somewhere between running a stop sign and assault. IMO. If you get caught smoking it while driving, then it's bye bye time. For like a year, (I feel the same way about drunk drivers), minimum. If you are selling it on a major scale and and some of those buyers happen to be kids, under 18, it's bye bye time. For a lot longer than a year. I guess that's part of my problem with it. How many of these dealers out there sell it or supply it to kids, like the 15 year old? |
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Post by twinegarden on Feb 17, 2009 14:46:46 GMT -6
If you get caught smoking it while driving, then it's bye bye time. For like a year, (I feel the same way about drunk drivers), minimum. Dude, you are a Nazi. I am assuming you have never smoked up before. I suppose people talking on their cell phones or drinking coffee while driving should get locked up for at least six months, right? Actually, I take that back, you aren't a Nazi. Just more of a "holier than though" type of asshole. You should move to Kansas. Also, drinking impairs your driving ability WAY more than weed. You know what is just as bad as drinking and driving? Lack of sleep and driving. I suppose anyone who doesn't get at least 7 hours of sleep before getting behind the wheel should be locked up too. Fuck it, why not throw everything but fun hating, far right, Rush Limbaugh dopes in jail. |
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