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Post by socal on Feb 13, 2009 14:40:08 GMT -6
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Post by lpcalihawk on Feb 13, 2009 14:47:57 GMT -6
Wait a minute.......are you saying that unions are not all to blame for the automobile mess?
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Post by NOTTHOR on Feb 13, 2009 15:07:01 GMT -6
Uhh, more than half of Toyota's cars are built with union labor in Japan. However, their American workforce is non union and the company is wisely cutting its demand for labor as demand for its products falls, a type of flexibility the Big 3 don't have. |
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Post by NotMyKid on Feb 13, 2009 15:32:36 GMT -6
The details of the cost-cutting plan come after the company’s announcement last week that it expected to post its first net loss since 1950, and its first operating loss since it began building cars in 1937 Again, any of the big 3 wish the same could be said about them. |
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Post by mattahawk on Feb 13, 2009 16:46:43 GMT -6
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Post by Iowafan1 on Feb 17, 2009 7:06:57 GMT -6
SoCal and LP, what point exactly are you attempting to make from that article? Have you not already been embarrassed thoroughly enough on your past BS union arguments? After all, it isn't like you can reasonably stand up and say "7 percent of America has spoken and are therefore correct!". The fact that the overwhelming percentage of Americans see unions for what they are should be enough for you. Just the fact that the union mafia is pushing for the Employee Free Choice Act, an act which eliminates the employee ability of a secret vote should also be enough, but naaaaa.....not for you.
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Post by socal on Feb 17, 2009 7:49:49 GMT -6
SoCal and LP, what point exactly are you attempting to make from that article? Have you not already been embarrassed thoroughly enough on your past BS union arguments? After all, it isn't like you can reasonably stand up and say "7 percent of America has spoken and are therefore correct!". The fact that the overwhelming percentage of Americans see unions for what they are should be enough for you. Just the fact that the union mafia is pushing for the Employee Free Choice Act, an act which eliminates the employee ability of a secret vote should also be enough, but naaaaa.....not for you. No real point. Just poking you with a stick. |
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Post by thunderhawk on Feb 17, 2009 11:00:19 GMT -6
SoCal and LP, what point exactly are you attempting to make from that article? Have you not already been embarrassed thoroughly enough on your past BS union arguments? After all, it isn't like you can reasonably stand up and say "7 percent of America has spoken and are therefore correct!". The fact that the overwhelming percentage of Americans see unions for what they are should be enough for you. Just the fact that the union mafia is pushing for the Employee Free Choice Act, an act which eliminates the employee ability of a secret vote should also be enough, but naaaaa.....not for you. Your personal paranoia does not equal "the overwhelming percentage of Americans." Keep hating the working man, you kkkonservative shitheads. It'll work out well for you. |
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Post by Iowafan1 on Feb 17, 2009 11:27:24 GMT -6
SoCal and LP, what point exactly are you attempting to make from that article? Have you not already been embarrassed thoroughly enough on your past BS union arguments? After all, it isn't like you can reasonably stand up and say "7 percent of America has spoken and are therefore correct!". The fact that the overwhelming percentage of Americans see unions for what they are should be enough for you. Just the fact that the union mafia is pushing for the Employee Free Choice Act, an act which eliminates the employee ability of a secret vote should also be enough, but naaaaa.....not for you. Your personal paranoia does not equal "the overwhelming percentage of Americans." Keep hating the working man, you kkkonservative shitheads. It'll work out well for you. I'll put non-union work ethic up against union work ethic any day of the week. It isn't the non union guys getting paid for not coming to work. Write this down: When the GM/Chrysler announcements are made later today, you can count on unions giving up that little slacker bennie. |
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Post by Chuck Storm on Feb 17, 2009 11:34:50 GMT -6
Wow. Just wow. Here's the buyout being offered by Toyota: But it is offering a voluntary exit program that includes 10 weeks’ salary, plus two weeks’ salary for every year worked, and a $20,000 departure bonus. It does not have a goal for the number of workers it hopes will take the plan Why don't you take a look at what GM is offering in their recently announced buyout and get back to me? I look forward to hearing your explanation for why GM's offer is materially higher than Toyota's. |
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Post by Iowafan1 on Feb 17, 2009 11:40:15 GMT -6
Wow. Just wow. Here's the buyout being offered by Toyota: But it is offering a voluntary exit program that includes 10 weeks’ salary, plus two weeks’ salary for every year worked, and a $20,000 departure bonus. It does not have a goal for the number of workers it hopes will take the plan Why don't you take a look at what GM is offering in their recently announced buyout and get back to me? I look forward to hearing your explanation for why GM's offer is materially higher than Toyota's. I'm a GM guy. Have two GM vehicles and a Chrysler here at the moment, but the GM offer is yet one more bad decision in an endless string of bad decisions that GM MGMT has made. Union workers + horrible management will get you in trouble pretty quick. |
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Post by thunderhawk on Feb 17, 2009 12:00:19 GMT -6
Hey dumbass, I dare you to hire non-union electricians to work on your home. Go for it. And load up on the fire insurance so we don't have to bail out your sorry ass.
Like I said, keep ripping on the union guys. Your party is doing a heckuva job.
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Post by NOTTHOR on Feb 17, 2009 12:56:07 GMT -6
Hey dumbass, I dare you to hire non-union electricians to work on your home. Go for it. And load up on the fire insurance so we don't have to bail out your sorry ass. Like I said, keep ripping on the union guys. Your party is doing a heckuva job. Is the electrician's union similar to say the state bar association or the state medical licensing board in that it sets the minimum standards of competence and education to be a "union" electrician? If so, the comparison to the UAW is inapplicable because many UAW positions are unskilled. What qualifications are necessary to run the air gun to bolt a wheel onto a car? |
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Post by thunderhawk on Feb 17, 2009 12:59:20 GMT -6
Hey dumbass, I dare you to hire non-union electricians to work on your home. Go for it. And load up on the fire insurance so we don't have to bail out your sorry ass. Like I said, keep ripping on the union guys. Your party is doing a heckuva job. Is the electrician's union similar to say the state bar association or the state medical licensing board in that it sets the minimum standards of competence and education to be a "union" electrician? If so, the comparison to the UAW is inapplicable because many UAW positions are unskilled. What qualifications are necessary to run the air gun to bolt a wheel onto a car? A valid point; in fact it is safe to say that these auto manufacturing jobs will probably be extinct in 20 years as artificial intelligence improves and robots fill the positions. |
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Post by NOTTHOR on Feb 17, 2009 13:30:23 GMT -6
Is the electrician's union similar to say the state bar association or the state medical licensing board in that it sets the minimum standards of competence and education to be a "union" electrician? If so, the comparison to the UAW is inapplicable because many UAW positions are unskilled. What qualifications are necessary to run the air gun to bolt a wheel onto a car? A valid point; in fact it is safe to say that these auto manufacturing jobs will probably be extinct in 20 years as artificial intelligence improves and robots fill the positions. I totally agree. I only have anecdotal evidence from a 20,000 foot view, but I have worked on deals that have cratered because of union refusals to allow mechanization of factories. I've only seen that twice, but it is my understanding that the UAW contracts have been pretty stringent about not not allowing too much mechanization. |
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Post by thunderhawk on Feb 17, 2009 14:18:39 GMT -6
A valid point; in fact it is safe to say that these auto manufacturing jobs will probably be extinct in 20 years as artificial intelligence improves and robots fill the positions. I totally agree. I only have anecdotal evidence from a 20,000 foot view, but I have worked on deals that have cratered because of union refusals to allow mechanization of factories. I've only seen that twice, but it is my understanding that the UAW contracts have been pretty stringent about not not allowing too much mechanization. The UAW is going to lose that battle one way or another. A dilemma is going to arise when we have all of these working-age unskilled laborers who can't find jobs. It's hard to see how the welfare state doesn't grow and the disparity between the educated and the un or undereducated widens exponentially. That demographic is probably fucked, and we are gonna pay for it. Not statement of desire or derision, merely one of foreseeable probability. |
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Post by NOTTHOR on Feb 17, 2009 15:01:19 GMT -6
I totally agree. I only have anecdotal evidence from a 20,000 foot view, but I have worked on deals that have cratered because of union refusals to allow mechanization of factories. I've only seen that twice, but it is my understanding that the UAW contracts have been pretty stringent about not not allowing too much mechanization. The UAW is going to lose that battle one way or another. A dilemma is going to arise when we have all of these working-age unskilled laborers who can't find jobs. It's hard to see how the welfare state doesn't grow and the disparity between the educated and the un or undereducated widens exponentially. That demographic is probably fucked, and we are gonna pay for it. Not statement of desire or derision, merely one of foreseeable probability. Agreed. Except the thing is it's not just that demographic group who is fucked. I don't know how old you are, but I am in my early 30's and I don't see any god damned way that I am not going to get totally hosed on taxes in the next 20 years. The "loan" from the Socialist Insecurity Trust Fund to the general treasury plus the inability of SS taxes to meet actual obligations does not bode well for anyone who will enter their peak earning years in the next 2 decades. Add in the increased welfare state benefits and it's gonna get ugly for anyone trying to make a buck in this country. |
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Post by Iowafan1 on Feb 20, 2009 2:10:31 GMT -6
www.foxnews.com/politics/first100days/2009/02/17/gm-chrysler-billion-bailout-cash/GM to lay off at least 47,000 union employees. Chrysler and Ford will be laying off proportionately the same. These are just the latest in what will be multiple rounds o flayoffs in this industry. Where is the union to save them? This is the "sub prime mortgage bubble" equivalant in the automotive industry. The big three managed to over hire employees (at union wages and benefits no less) and the end result is that the union membership gets screwed in the end when the bubble bursts. This will be the end result of all Barry's infrastructure contracts when they come grinding to a halt as well. People and business need to be allowed to win and lose for growth. Government intervention has only accelerated the debt and delayed the inevitable end result. It will be incredible ugly by the time the damage is done. We are in the midst of taking on $4 trillion dollars in debt over the course of the next year or two. Write your elected representatives today to tell them to stop putting, not only your futures, but the futures of your kids and grandkids in jeopardy.
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Post by socal on Feb 20, 2009 7:55:39 GMT -6
www.foxnews.com/politics/first100days/2009/02/17/gm-chrysler-billion-bailout-cash/GM to lay off at least 47,000 union employees. Chrysler and Ford will be laying off proportionately the same. These are just the latest in what will be multiple rounds o flayoffs in this industry. Where is the union to save them? This is the "sub prime mortgage bubble" equivalant in the automotive industry. The big three managed to over hire employees (at union wages and benefits no less) and the end result is that the union membership gets screwed in the end when the bubble bursts. This will be the end result of all Barry's infrastructure contracts when they come grinding to a halt as well. People and business need to be allowed to win and lose for growth. Government intervention has only accelerated the debt and delayed the inevitable end result. It will be incredible ugly by the time the damage is done. We are in the midst of taking on $4 trillion dollars in debt over the course of the next year or two. Write your elected representatives today to tell them to stop putting, not only your futures, but the futures of your kids and grandkids in jeopardy. I wasn't aware that cars would now continue to work forever, and roads now fix themselves. |
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Post by Iowafan1 on Feb 24, 2009 7:44:27 GMT -6
www.foxnews.com/politics/first100days/2009/02/17/gm-chrysler-billion-bailout-cash/GM to lay off at least 47,000 union employees. Chrysler and Ford will be laying off proportionately the same. These are just the latest in what will be multiple rounds o flayoffs in this industry. Where is the union to save them? This is the "sub prime mortgage bubble" equivalant in the automotive industry. The big three managed to over hire employees (at union wages and benefits no less) and the end result is that the union membership gets screwed in the end when the bubble bursts. This will be the end result of all Barry's infrastructure contracts when they come grinding to a halt as well. People and business need to be allowed to win and lose for growth. Government intervention has only accelerated the debt and delayed the inevitable end result. It will be incredible ugly by the time the damage is done. We are in the midst of taking on $4 trillion dollars in debt over the course of the next year or two. Write your elected representatives today to tell them to stop putting, not only your futures, but the futures of your kids and grandkids in jeopardy. I wasn't aware that cars would now continue to work forever, and roads now fix themselves. It's called right sizing. |
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Post by Iowafan1 on Feb 24, 2009 7:47:59 GMT -6
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Post by socal on Feb 24, 2009 7:57:43 GMT -6
Of all the rotten luck... My work wasn't union, Circuit City wasn't union, Microsoft wasn't union, Motorola, Google, Citi, IBM, eBay, Starbucks,... not union. But I think a good portion of the 6,000 from Toledo Mining may have been. So does this justify your union blaming in your fucked up mind? |
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Post by Iowafan1 on Feb 24, 2009 8:21:16 GMT -6
Of all the rotten luck... My work wasn't union, Circuit City wasn't union, Microsoft wasn't union, Motorola, Google, Citi, IBM, eBay, Starbucks,... not union. But I think a good portion of the 6,000 from Toledo Mining may have been. So does this justify your union blaming in your fucked up mind? You may want to revert back to the first post in this thread....ya' know....the one you started? |
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Post by thunderhawk on Feb 24, 2009 10:36:08 GMT -6
Of all the rotten luck... My work wasn't union, Circuit City wasn't union, Microsoft wasn't union, Motorola, Google, Citi, IBM, eBay, Starbucks,... not union. But I think a good portion of the 6,000 from Toledo Mining may have been. So does this justify your union blaming in your fucked up mind? Look at the douchebag's sig and you'll have your answer. |
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