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Post by socal on Mar 4, 2009 11:36:41 GMT -6
I'm sure it won't change your mind but give the whole thing a read. Reads like a pro-labor-union treatise. |
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Post by lpcalihawk on Mar 4, 2009 11:47:04 GMT -6
I hear what you are saying. But I still think they are evil. Although, some form of religions are not really evil as in sinister. But, they both are bad for the world. Pretty much every war that has ever been fought has been for money or religion. Whole lot of death. There have been wars in which religion and/or money have played a major role(or have been THE reason). Which wars during the 20th century(the bloodiest century by far) were fought mainly over religion or money? The Iraq war is being fought mainly over religion and money. It certainly isn't being fought as retaliation over 9-11. |
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Post by iammrhawkeyes on Mar 4, 2009 12:07:27 GMT -6
There have been wars in which religion and/or money have played a major role(or have been THE reason). Which wars during the 20th century(the bloodiest century by far) were fought mainly over religion or money? The Iraq war is being fought mainly over religion and money. It certainly isn't being fought as retaliation over 9-11. Maybe. Maybe not, but that's not the point. I did say that wars have been fought over religion and money though many wars have been fought for others reasons as well(going to Jesus' point about all wars being fought over one or the other). I do think many of the current skirmishes around the globe are being fought in the name of religion-mostly radical Islam. However, looking at the recent past, what were the causes for WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Gulf War I? As I said, the bloodiest century ever and religion/money were not the main causes. |
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Post by roxxstar on Mar 4, 2009 12:18:15 GMT -6
I hear what you are saying. But I still think they are evil. Although, some form of religions are not really evil as in sinister. But, they both are bad for the world. Pretty much every war that has ever been fought has been for money or religion. Whole lot of death. There have been wars in which religion and/or money have played a major role(or have been THE reason). Which wars during the 20th century(the bloodiest century by far) were fought mainly over religion or money? The wars we are fighting right now are over religion and money. We are fighting a war on terrorists. Terrorists attack us over religious reasons. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Jihad literally mean "Holy War"? I'm also sure that the war on "terror" has nothing to do with Iraq having huge oil field reserves either. So, I guess money wasn't factored in to the decision to go to war...........  Also, wasn't Vietnam a war to stop the spread of communism? Communism is a direct threat to Capitalism, which revolves around money. |
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Post by roxxstar on Mar 4, 2009 12:25:51 GMT -6
We the people have the wool pulled over our eyes all the time. If you really want to blow your mind, read about the Bardo and the "Cold Machine". Anyway, for what it's worth, I truly believe that money and religion are the two most evil concepts known to man. I'm sure it won't change your mind but give the whole thing a read. www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=1826No, it didn't change my mind. It lost any credibility for me after the first paragraph when it said: "So long as men live together on earth and need means to deal with one another--their only substitute, if they abandon money, is the muzzle of a gun" So according to this, the only alternative to money is guns and brute force? What a joke. I can't take this article seriously. |
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Post by roxxstar on Mar 4, 2009 12:30:32 GMT -6
There have been wars in which religion and/or money have played a major role(or been THE reason). Which wars during the 20th century(the bloodiest century by far) were fought mainly over religion or money? You beat me to it. Those who make the claim that money is evil generally don't don't earn much of it, yet have no problem taking it from others and spending the hell out of it. Damn, dude. Just when I thought you couldn't be anymore of a moron, you spout some shit off like this. You are a sheep man. You are simple in every sense of the word. And for the record, I may not make your kind of money. But, I make enough to support myself and have never taken a handout from the government in my life you hairy fuck bag. |
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Post by iammrhawkeyes on Mar 4, 2009 13:10:18 GMT -6
No, it didn't change my mind. It lost any credibility for me after the first paragraph when it said: "So long as men live together on earth and need means to deal with one another--their only substitute, if they abandon money, is the muzzle of a gun" So according to this, the only alternative to money is guns and brute force? What a joke. I can't take this article seriously. So, what's the alternative to money and guns? |
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Post by roxxstar on Mar 4, 2009 14:17:49 GMT -6
No, it didn't change my mind. It lost any credibility for me after the first paragraph when it said: "So long as men live together on earth and need means to deal with one another--their only substitute, if they abandon money, is the muzzle of a gun" So according to this, the only alternative to money is guns and brute force? What a joke. I can't take this article seriously. So, what's the alternative to money and guns? Well, a barter econonmy is one alternative that relies on neither money nor force/violence. Look, I'm not saying I have a better alternative then money. I'm just saying that there's nothing wrong with questioning the way our world works. Capitalism is flawed because it divides the population. Any system where a small percentage of the people control the majority of wealth is bad. What I'm saying is money is bad because it allows for people that don't have it to suffer. Basic human needs like food, shelter and medicine shouldn't be determined by how much money you have. And before Iowafan jumps in here, I want to clarify that I do make ok money. I do live in a very decent place (Townhouse) in a very decent neighborhood (West Des Moines - Jordan Creek area). I eat out at nice restaurants and have quality entertainment at home (like my kick ass 61 inch 1080p TV and other nice electronic equipment). So this isn't coming from some poor schlob who is jilted at the world because he doesn't have any money and resents everyone who does have it. I don't believe things should be given to me. The world doesn't "owe" me anything. I'm simply stating my opinion that the world does not run as smooth as it should. Everything revolves around money. And because of that, millions of people are starving, sick (and can't get treated), homeless, etc. This is why money is evil. It divides people and prevents access to basic human needs because they don't have any of it.  |
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Post by NOTTHOR on Mar 4, 2009 15:18:21 GMT -6
Starvation, death from disease and lack of shelter are conditions that pre-existed the creation of money. A barter system does nothing to alleviate those and the mere existence of money does nothing to cause those conditions.
What is a system that does not divide the population? I fail to understand how Nancy Pelosi or Barney Frank is any better at allocating capital than the market. Would any of them created products that have made everyone's life better like Windows, the iPod, the Intel microprocessor or the Baconator? I doubt it.
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Post by HawksStock on Mar 4, 2009 15:36:08 GMT -6
The Iraq war is being fought mainly over religion and money. It certainly isn't being fought as retaliation over 9-11. It isn't being fought over religion or oil, it's was started to force us to borrow money from the fed reserve that prints it. Thus earning the bankers billions, and devaluing our savings. |
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Post by lpcalihawk on Mar 4, 2009 16:34:46 GMT -6
The Iraq war is being fought mainly over religion and money. It certainly isn't being fought as retaliation over 9-11. It isn't being fought over religion or oil, it's was started to force us to borrow money from the fed reserve that prints it. Thus earning the bankers billions, and devaluing our savings. So money is the reason the Iraq war is being fought. That is what you are saying. |
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Post by HawksStock on Mar 4, 2009 16:56:20 GMT -6
If we borrow a trillion from FR, they print it, and the use hands them 1 trillion in gov. owed bonds. The FR (owned by the banks) is then capable of loaning an additional 900M in loans (gov. bonds are treated like cash and only 10% needs to be physically accounted for), dividends are paid at 6%
Tell me this war is about oil or religion, that is total bullshit.
Money people, the war is about money, money into the hands of the Rockefellers, as well as the people who own them, the Rothschilds.
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Post by Iowafan1 on Mar 4, 2009 18:21:06 GMT -6
So, what's the alternative to money and guns? Well, a barter econonmy is one alternative that relies on neither money nor force/violence. Look, I'm not saying I have a better alternative then money. I'm just saying that there's nothing wrong with questioning the way our world works. Capitalism is flawed because it divides the population. Any system where a small percentage of the people control the majority of wealth is bad. What I'm saying is money is bad because it allows for people that don't have it to suffer. Basic human needs like food, shelter and medicine shouldn't be determined by how much money you have. And before Iowafan jumps in here, I want to clarify that I do make ok money. I do live in a very decent place (Townhouse) in a very decent neighborhood (West Des Moines - Jordan Creek area). I eat out at nice restaurants and have quality entertainment at home (like my kick ass 61 inch 1080p TV and other nice electronic equipment). So this isn't coming from some poor schlob who is jilted at the world because he doesn't have any money and resents everyone who does have it. I don't believe things should be given to me. The world doesn't "owe" me anything. I'm simply stating my opinion that the world does not run as smooth as it should. Everything revolves around money. And because of that, millions of people are starving, sick (and can't get treated), homeless, etc. This is why money is evil. It divides people and prevents access to basic human needs because they don't have any of it. Why exactly do you think the overwhelming percentage of medical (drugs, equipment, etc.) patents come from the U.S.? Profits.....money. |
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Post by iammrhawkeyes on Mar 4, 2009 19:01:08 GMT -6
There have been wars in which religion and/or money have played a major role(or have been THE reason). Which wars during the 20th century(the bloodiest century by far) were fought mainly over religion or money? The wars we are fighting right now are over religion and money. We are fighting a war on terrorists. Terrorists attack us over religious reasons. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Jihad literally mean "Holy War"? I'm also sure that the war on "terror" has nothing to do with Iraq having huge oil field reserves either. So, I guess money wasn't factored in to the decision to go to war........... Also, wasn't Vietnam a war to stop the spread of communism? Communism is a direct threat to Capitalism, which revolves around money. Both systems revolove around wealth and how it's distributed but that's not why we were fighting. We were fighting the totalitarian ideals that have to accompany communism (the economic system). How about the other conflicts I mentioned? |
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Post by iammrhawkeyes on Mar 4, 2009 21:32:42 GMT -6
So, what's the alternative to money and guns? Well, a barter econonmy is one alternative that relies on neither money nor force/violence. Look, I'm not saying I have a better alternative then money. I'm just saying that there's nothing wrong with questioning the way our world works. Capitalism is flawed because it divides the population. Any system where a small percentage of the people control the majority of wealth is bad. What I'm saying is money is bad because it allows for people that don't have it to suffer. Basic human needs like food, shelter and medicine shouldn't be determined by how much money you have. And before Iowafan jumps in here, I want to clarify that I do make ok money. I do live in a very decent place (Townhouse) in a very decent neighborhood (West Des Moines - Jordan Creek area). I eat out at nice restaurants and have quality entertainment at home (like my kick ass 61 inch 1080p TV and other nice electronic equipment). So this isn't coming from some poor schlob who is jilted at the world because he doesn't have any money and resents everyone who does have it. I don't believe things should be given to me. The world doesn't "owe" me anything. I'm simply stating my opinion that the world does not run as smooth as it should. Everything revolves around money. And because of that, millions of people are starving, sick (and can't get treated), homeless, etc. This is why money is evil. It divides people and prevents access to basic human needs because they don't have any of it. Of course there's nothing wrong with questioning how the world works you capitalist dog. The barter system would require a person to produce a good or service in return for goods and services. How does this help the non-productive? In essence, we do live in a barter society. From the pro-labor-union treatise in the "article" I provided: Money is a tool of exchange, which can't exist unless there are goods produced and men able to produce them. Money is the material shape of the principle that men who wish to deal with one another must deal by trade and give value for value. Money is not the tool of the moochers, who claim your product by tears, or of the looters, who take it from you by force. Money is made possible only by the men who produce. Is this what you consider evil? |
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Post by HawksStock on Mar 5, 2009 9:18:36 GMT -6
The barter system would require a person to produce a good or service in return for goods and services. How does this help the non-productive? In essence, we do live in a barter society. [/i][/quote] No we are not essentially under a barter system, we haven't been since the illuminati (fdr at the time) took us off the gold standard. In roman time an ounce of gold would buy you a fine cloak, a pair of shoes, and a hand made belt. Go to brooks brothers today, you can pick up a fine suit, a pair of shoes, and a hand made belt for the same. Thus, interest on your savings is a lie, investing in gold is a lie. Investing in gold is merely a way to stave off inflation, earning interest is merely way of transfering more wealth to the bankers. |
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Post by socal on Mar 5, 2009 9:35:05 GMT -6
I say we go back to the salt standard.
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Post by thunderhawk on Mar 5, 2009 9:47:56 GMT -6
I say we go back to the salt standard. Salt of the earth. |
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Post by Norm "racerhawk" Parker on Mar 8, 2009 10:20:39 GMT -6
Trade of goods can, and does, bring prosperity and wealth to individuals and nations. That trade ideally is free with limited intervention by governing forces. Trade increases efficiencies, and helps raise the standard of living for all in our global world.
That's not the same thing as saying money is highest moral standard that we have. I think that humans have the potential to value things above money and guns, but many on this board will disagree.
I really struggle with the zealots on both the far left and far right these days. Despite my historically left-sided affiliation, I am growing tired of the idea that the government is somehow a cure-all...of course they're not. I actually do believe in as much free trade and private enterprise as humanly possible with minimal intervention, but the religious right scares the hell out of me. To those who would say that the Iraq war is not about religion...where have you been? The terrorists hate our affiliation with Israel and our capitalistic values. Those are the underpinnings of the 9/11strikes. That, and their poverty. So, to say that the Arab v. America/Israel ongoing conflict isn't about money or religion is silly. Also, GW stated that the Iraq war would be "a new crusade" if I believe. Our country has set out to defend "its way of life" and in doing so has defended capitalism and in a sense, Christianity from "radical Islam." Note that there are so many people in the world who are Islamic who are kind and gentle. Just a thought.
Having said that, I'm sick of labor unions (a bit off topic). My workplace is in collective bargaining negotiations, and the union people are beginning to make me ill. As someone who has always worked, put myself through a couple of degrees with minimal money, and never taken really any time off work due to necessity, I'm really tired of both sides, who like to blame "big business" or "big government."
This thread seems to be a pedantic expression for both sides.
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Post by NOTTHOR on Mar 8, 2009 15:02:35 GMT -6
Having said that, I'm sick of labor unions (a bit off topic). My workplace is in collective bargaining negotiations, and the union people are beginning to make me ill. As someone who has always worked, put myself through a couple of degrees with minimal money, and never taken really any time off work due to necessity, I'm really tired of both sides, who like to blame "big business" or "big government." Hey racer, does the union at your shop have a pension fund? I have heard some hospitals are getting pwn3d because the stock market drop has caused the pension funds to be underfunded and the hospitals are going to have to kick in cash to bring the funding back up. I hope you guys aren't in that situation. |
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