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Post by NOTTHOR on Apr 23, 2009 8:45:47 GMT -6
www.nytimes.com/2009/04/23/us/23scotus.html?_r=1&ref=global-homeWhere do you dudes think it will come out? A fire department had a test to promote people and the top 20 scorers on the test were white or hispanic. Since no African-Americans scored in the top 20, the city threw out the test results because the test had a disparate impact and was thus racist, even though all the variables regarding study time, test taking time, conditions, etc. were equal. I think it comes out 5-4 with some convoluted standard that will cost municipalities billions of dollars to comply with and lead to decades of additional litigation.
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Post by thunderhawk on Apr 23, 2009 9:17:49 GMT -6
"Clusterfuck" is the word that comes to mind.
Isn't the sample size too small to come up with a statistically significant result? That's the "out" I'd use.
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Post by HawksStock on Apr 23, 2009 10:57:35 GMT -6
"Clusterfuck" is the word that comes to mind. Isn't the sample size too small to come up with a statistically significant result? That's the "out" I'd use. This is true to some extent, but this case has more to do with what one does once the results are in. I side with "meritocracy", but am unable to off an opinion on this particular case without seeing the test questions. If the questions are less subjective; regulations, procedure, mathematics, etc. Than I side with the plaintiff. |
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Post by NOTTHOR on Apr 23, 2009 12:02:44 GMT -6
"Clusterfuck" is the word that comes to mind. Isn't the sample size too small to come up with a statistically significant result? That's the "out" I'd use. This is true to some extent, but this case has more to do with what one does once the results are in. I side with "meritocracy", but am unable to off an opinion on this particular case without seeing the test questions. If the questions are less subjective; regulations, procedure, mathematics, etc. Than I side with the plaintiff. Well, the city hired a consulting firm to design the test to ensure it was race neutral. Then, when the results came out, they decided it wasn't. If I'm stuck in a burning building and the fire department is going to send someone in after me, I want the supervisor to be a quick thinker and have a good understanding of the science of fire, physics, building structures, and other things like that which a paper test can judge rather than someone who is picked based on a political appointment or to attain some harmonious racial balance. Plus, if the test had questions about department management policies and things of that nature, as a taxpayer I would want the guy who understands those policies managing the department and making hiring and firing decisions. Matters like this should be decided on their merits and not by a bunch of lawyers behind the scenes. |
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Post by NotMyKid on Apr 23, 2009 13:38:32 GMT -6
This is true to some extent, but this case has more to do with what one does once the results are in. I side with "meritocracy", but am unable to off an opinion on this particular case without seeing the test questions. If the questions are less subjective; regulations, procedure, mathematics, etc. Than I side with the plaintiff. Well, the city hired a consulting firm to design the test to ensure it was race neutral. Then, when the results came out, they decided it wasn't. If I'm stuck in a burning building and the fire department is going to send someone in after me, I want the supervisor to be a quick thinker and have a good understanding of the science of fire, physics, building structures, and other things like that which a paper test can judge rather than someone who is picked based on a political appointment or to attain some harmonious racial balance. Plus, if the test had questions about department management policies and things of that nature, as a taxpayer I would want the guy who understands those policies managing the department and making hiring and firing decisions. Matters like this should be decided on their merits and not by a bunch of lawyers behind the scenes. Come on that would make too much sense and we are talking about city government after all. |
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Post by thunderhawk on Apr 24, 2009 9:44:09 GMT -6
I haven't read the case, and I'm not going to, but from skimming the assertions I still contend that the sample size is way too small to make any rational judgment about the test. I agree completely that meritocracy in this line of work is vitally important and that outcome-oriented policies literally put lives at risk.
As far as the neon pink elephant in the room suggesting that maybe black folks aren't as intelligent or management-oriented as other ethnicities, I'd simply point out the fact that the current occupant of the White House, whether you consider him a fascist, socialist, or something in between, is (and it pains my ego to admit this) more intelligent and a better manager than anyone here or anyone who any of us probably personally knows, and ditto for the most well respected Republican (RINO, perhaps) in America, one Colin Powell. I think that myth has been put to sleep as surely as those 21 Venezuelan polo horses. But that myth is kind of rearing its ugly head here and is the ugly undertone in this case.
I can't comment on the racial neutrality of this exam because I don't have an adequate sample size. Apparently nobody does. That's the bottom line for me on this issue. So I would not void the results of the exam unless it is conclusively proven to be racially biased.
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