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Post by thunderhawk on Nov 14, 2009 23:10:35 GMT -6
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Post by MoHawk on Nov 15, 2009 15:26:59 GMT -6
I disagree with this.
I think Vandenberg...as well as he'd played all game, was losing it a bit there in the 4th. He'd already thrown one INT, and frankly, should have had at least one other if not for a miracle by Tony. With 50 seconds to go, I would have liked to have seen a short pass to see what the defense was going to give us. If it didn't look good, kneel on it. All things considered though, I'm OK with taking our chances in overtime.
The decision to play for OT did not lose the game. A couple of missed blocks and A-Rob busts that run for at least a 15 yard gain in OT. This loss is NOT on Kirk, or the coaches. Simply a bad play here and there.
And also, if you want to be REALLY technical about it...Iowa left at least 10 points on the field with Stross dropping a sure TD and Murray missing a FG.
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Post by NOTTHOR on Nov 15, 2009 16:56:13 GMT -6
Yeah, I kind of agree with MoHawk here. I am now at peace with it. Face it, we don't have Nate Kaeding anymore. If we did, I'd say go for it, but with Murray barely being able to get the ball over the line against Indiana, even if we were able to move it down the field, there is no way that kid makes a long FG, and in all likelihood, it would have been blocked and taken to the house.
I was talking to LeonBt when he kicked that chip shot and was calling miss all the way on that one. He just ain't a good kicker and the risk of Vandenberg trying to throw it downfield, plus the very low likelihood of Murray being able to hit a 45+ yarder leads me to believe in hindsight that Kirk made the right call to sit on the ball.
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Post by MoHawk on Nov 15, 2009 19:29:10 GMT -6
Yeah, I was wicked pissed last night too when Kirk gave the order to kneel and go to OT, but I still think our best bet to win that game was in OT...force Tressel to make a mistake.
OSU was obviously freaking out...Tressel is a great coach, but he's an awful leader. He starts to panic at the first sign of trouble. As soon as DJK ran that kick back, he started freaking out.
Tressel did exactly what Kirk thought he would do in OT...run the ball. We missed one block on ARob's run in OT, and that cost us the game essentially.
The odd thing about all of this is, I'm kind of at peace about this game. It showed me that last week's game was an aberration. We can play with, and beat, anyone in the country I believe. That was a banged up team that went to Columbus yesterday, and frankly, we beat ourselves.
By the time the bowl game rolls around and most everyone is healthy again...I don't care who we're playing (though most are projecting us in the Fiesta against Boise or against Ole Miss in the Cap One), we should win.
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Post by NOTTHOR on Nov 15, 2009 21:04:40 GMT -6
I doubt Stanzi's back for the bowl, but I seriously fucking shudder to think what this ball club will do to Boise or Ole Miss. 3 fucking weeks of practice and getting Dace back is going to make that team unstoppable. If Dace plays yesterday, we win. Fucking Vandervelde Strossed us the game.
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Post by Solar Stud on Nov 16, 2009 6:29:52 GMT -6
Obviously the coaching staff forgot what happened at MSU....
....78 yards....90 seconds left....TD or go home....we mixed it up...rocked MSU on their heels and won the damm game by letting the players play!
40 yards needed in 50+ seconds with a TO available and you don't give the team a chance to win it?
You think Hayden Fry and staff would have pulled this conservative stunt crap and played not to lose? Are you kidding me?
We pissed this one down our pant leg. Period.
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Post by Solar Stud on Nov 16, 2009 6:30:56 GMT -6
I was at the game.
Terrible decision IMO. OSU fans dumbfounded as well.
#1--We controlled our own destiny. I.e. we HAD THE BALL. Instead we stand around with our thumb up our butt and handed the ball/destiny to a COIN TOSS.
#2--We relied on JV the entire game and THEN we decide not to mess with his head with the game on the line???
#3--We only needed 40 yards to get into FG position. We didn't need to get a TD.
#4--Take a shot...hell...take two shots. Maybe we get a catch. Maybe we get a flag.
#5--Worse case...they pick it downfield. So what? Tressell would have sat on it.
#6--There are only so many years where we have the ROSE BOWL on the line, with an Iowa team AT OSU which has played them straight up for 59 minutes and we CONTROL OUR DESTINY. Man, you go for the gusto...at least dink the ball downfield. DO SOMETHING.
#7--I threw my hat down with a loud WTF. All the OSU fans did was smile.
Still can't believe it.
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Post by thejesus on Nov 16, 2009 8:15:46 GMT -6
I was at the game. Terrible decision IMO. OSU fans dumbfounded as well. #1--We controlled our own destiny. I.e. we HAD THE BALL. Instead we stand around with our thumb up our butt and handed the ball/destiny to a COIN TOSS. #2--We relied on JV the entire game and THEN we decide not to mess with his head with the game on the line??? #3--We only needed 40 yards to get into FG position. We didn't need to get a TD. #4--Take a shot...hell...take two shots. Maybe we get a catch. Maybe we get a flag. #5--Worse case...they pick it downfield. So what? Tressell would have sat on it. #6--There are only so many years where we have the ROSE BOWL on the line, with an Iowa team AT OSU which has played them straight up for 59 minutes and we CONTROL OUR DESTINY. Man, you go for the gusto...at least dink the ball downfield. DO SOMETHING. #7--I threw my hat down with a loud WTF. All the OSU fans did was smile. Still can't believe it. Completely agree. I guess I should have looked in this thread before posting in the other. |
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Post by lpcalihawk on Nov 16, 2009 9:06:32 GMT -6
I was at the game. Terrible decision IMO. OSU fans dumbfounded as well. #1--We controlled our own destiny. I.e. we HAD THE BALL. Instead we stand around with our thumb up our butt and handed the ball/destiny to a COIN TOSS. #2--We relied on JV the entire game and THEN we decide not to mess with his head with the game on the line??? #3--We only needed 40 yards to get into FG position. We didn't need to get a TD. #4--Take a shot...hell...take two shots. Maybe we get a catch. Maybe we get a flag. #5--Worse case...they pick it downfield. So what? Tressell would have sat on it. #6--There are only so many years where we have the ROSE BOWL on the line, with an Iowa team AT OSU which has played them straight up for 59 minutes and we CONTROL OUR DESTINY. Man, you go for the gusto...at least dink the ball downfield. DO SOMETHING. #7--I threw my hat down with a loud WTF. All the OSU fans did was smile. Still can't believe it. Seth and Thunder are right on. BTR and MoHawk have bought into KF's "play to lose" mentality. This is a once in a lifetime opportunity to beat OSU for the outright Big 10 title and the Rose Bowl and we sit on the ball. That was a complete joke. Despite what MoHawk says about JVB, we had the momentum. We had just stopped OSU and had time to move the ball. I really hope our kids can bounce back and put a pounding on Minnesota this week. I truly feel bad for them as our coaching staff did not put them in a position to win the game. |
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Post by MoHawk on Nov 16, 2009 9:17:36 GMT -6
I don't think it's playing not to lose. I think going to OT gives your redshirt freshman QB making his first start ever the best chance of winning the game for you.
As stellar as he was for the majority of the game, he started slipping in the 4th...making freshman mistakes, which I don't begrudge him for. He's a freshman after all. Asking him to throw into the 5th ranked defense in the country, which is expecting a pass scenario with at least 6 DB's in dime coverage is BEGGING for an INT to be thrown.
What it boils down to is which scenario gave us the best chance at a win. With how the 4th quarter played out...I firmly believe an even playing field in OT with a short field and a defense not keying in on the pass was our best chance. Bottom line: we didn't execute in OT. As I said above, if we make one block on A-Rob's run on 2nd down, that's a 15 yard gain rather than a 6 yard loss...completely changing the face of the game.
It's not about "playing to not lose" it's about giving your team the best chance to win. I still think that's in OT in that situation. If we were at home? I'd be more prone to criticize and go for it with 52 seconds left. We weren't in Iowa City, and I'm OK with what decisions were made.
If we try to push it down the field and JVB throws an interception, or A-Rob fumbles the ball on a run or whatever, you guys would be crucifying Ferentz for not taking a chance in overtime. It's a lose/lose situation for him as far as public perception. I think he made the right choice.
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Post by lpcalihawk on Nov 16, 2009 9:50:23 GMT -6
I don't think I'd crucify KF for a INT or Fumble if we are trying to win the Big 10 title and trip to a Rose Bowl. After rallying back in the 4th quarter from a 2-TD deficit, we had the momentum. Moeaki's catch in triple coverage showed things were going our way. The McNutt TD added to that momentum. Our defense stopping OSU in the final 2 minutes. What else needs to happen to show the stars were lining up for the Hawks again with less than a minute to play?
We didn't even try!!!!!! We couldn't call at least a couple of short passes to see if someone could break something? Come on!!!! DJK and McNutt were better than the OSU secondary on Saturday. McNutt and DJK are tired of the bullshit (see DJK post game comments).
I'll agree to disagree with you MoHawk.
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Post by MoHawk on Nov 16, 2009 10:02:13 GMT -6
Fair enough. I'll point out that the Tony catch in triple coverage should have been an INT for JVB, and thanks to a miracle...it wasn't. And I shouldn't be so pointed...I think fans, in general, would have crucified KF had he gone for it and an interception or whatnot happens.
I can see both sides of the argument, and yours is certainly not an invalid argument.
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Post by NotMyKid on Nov 16, 2009 10:11:40 GMT -6
Fair enough. I'll point out that the Tony catch in triple coverage should have been an INT for JVB, and thanks to a miracle...it wasn't. And I shouldn't be so pointed...I think fans, in general, would have crucified KF had he gone for it and an interception or whatnot happens. I can see both sides of the argument, and yours is certainly not an invalid argument. As I said in the other thread I can see both sides, the more I think about it I lean toward going for it, and maybe KF even felt the same way today or yesterday, but he went with his gut with only about 5 seconds to make a choice, I can handle that. |
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Post by hawkeyescott on Nov 16, 2009 10:43:41 GMT -6
I honestly didn't have a problem with the decision. The way Murray has looked he wasn't going to make a 40 plus yard FG anyway, fuck he missed from 22 and the one he did make was a fucking knuckleball that just cleared the cross bar so we were lucky that one even went through. Why take a shot when you know your kicker sucks right now and chance an Int being returned. Take it to OT and let the D win it for you even though that didn't happen.
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Post by Saggitariutt Jefferspin (ith) on Nov 16, 2009 12:57:50 GMT -6
At least throw a deep pass or two with 20 seconds to go. If it's intercepted, OSU isn't going anywhere. Maybe you draw a flag...hell maybe we catch the ball and have a CHANCE to kick the game winner. Yes, Murray struggled...but that's no reason to NOT give him a chance to redeem himself.
I could argue until I'm blue in the face...I'm trying to let it go. But you're in enemy territory, the crowd has been some what quieted, OSU may be on their heels a bit....PLAYING FOR THE FUCKING ROSE BOWL...and you go up to the line of scrimmage and watch the time tick tick tick away.
FUCK IT. Let's kill the Gophers and enjoy our bowl game (though I was seriously going to book tickets to Pasedena last night if we won).
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Post by Solar Stud on Nov 16, 2009 14:04:30 GMT -6
I disagree with this. I think Vandenberg...as well as he'd played all game, was losing it a bit there in the 4th. He'd already thrown one INT, and frankly, should have had at least one other if not for a miracle by Tony. With 50 seconds to go, I would have liked to have seen a short pass to see what the defense was going to give us. If it didn't look good, kneel on it. All things considered though, I'm OK with taking our chances in overtime. The decision to play for OT did not lose the game. A couple of missed blocks and A-Rob busts that run for at least a 15 yard gain in OT. This loss is NOT on Kirk, or the coaches. Simply a bad play here and there. And also, if you want to be REALLY technical about it...Iowa left at least 10 points on the field with Stross dropping a sure TD and Murray missing a FG. Sorry Matty....that Missouri living must be fucking with your senses....you don't give the ball to the ref without doing something first. |
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Post by thejesus on Nov 16, 2009 14:46:09 GMT -6
In college football, momentum is everything. We were up to our eyeballs in momentum. The way the game was going, I figured FOR SURE we were gonna get in FG range and win that mother fucker. The fans thought that too, you could tell. Everyone was collectively holding their breath.
What did we do with that huge pile of momentum? Not a fucking thing. We sat there with our thumbs up our ass. At the very least, we should have waited till there was about 10 seconds left and attempted a long pass. Worst case scenario, a pick happens and OSU has the ball with maybe a couple seconds to play and 70 yards to go. Other then that, nothing else hurts. Not even a sack hurts.
It still boggles my mind. Pull the skirt up fellas, this is football we are playing. Ride the emotion/momentum and take it to the fuckers.
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Post by thunderhawk on Nov 16, 2009 20:52:10 GMT -6
Ironically...
I'd rather go see a bowl game in PHX than LA. Having spent some time in both places, PHX is more fun that time of year. The buzz is that the Fiesta wants us like a moth wants light.
So Kirk's fist-fucking of me actually might turn out OK if we can beat the rodents.
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Post by NOTTHOR on Nov 16, 2009 21:04:34 GMT -6
Ironically... I'd rather go see a bowl game in PHX than LA. Having spent some time in both places, PHX is more fun that time of year. The buzz is that the Fiesta wants us like a moth wants light. So Kirk's fist-fucking of me actually might turn out OK if we can beat the rodents. Dude, RB would have been nice, but you know and I know what that fucking Oregon spread could have done to us, assuming they have a guy who can block Clayborn. Now Boise State doesn't have a dude who can block Clayborn. He is going to murderize their QB and we are going to show them precisely why shitbag schools with 33,000 seat stadiums from shitbag conferences do not deserve a seat at the table with the adults. You see, fucking Alabama and Oklahoma weren't businesslike. To them, it was just another game, but with the fucking contract moola Ferentz gets for winning a BCS game, our fucking boys are going to go out there and destroy whoever is in their path. And then we are going to finish around 7th or 8th in the final polls, maybe higher, who knows. But the key is that the good finish then sets up very, very nicely for a legit national title run next year, assuming Captain Kirk and Co. don't engage in their normal September pants shitting festival. I don't know boys, that loss could work to our advantage if it gets us to an 11-2 season without a humiliating bowl loss on the national stage. |
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Post by NotMyKid on Nov 17, 2009 9:08:49 GMT -6
One more thing about the end of the game. If on 2nd and 10 in OT if we didn't miss that block A-Rob runs for a first down on that play maybe more. What happens if we score a TD in OT?
There are way to many shoulda, coulda, woulda's and sure it's easy after we lose the game to say we should have gone for it but anything can happen.
BTR,
I have to agree with you looking at next years schedule even before this year I thought next year would be "the year". The trip to Arizona next year is clearly our biggest test on the road they are young and will have a different QB playing against us then they did in Kinnick. (at least for most of the game)
We still need to go out Saturday and drop a double nickel on Minny like we did last year.
As for the bowl game I like our chances against anyone in the country. KF has shown since the Orange Bowl that he can get a team prepared with that much time. Hell look what he and KOK did with only one week to prepare for tOSU!
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Post by thunderhawk on Nov 17, 2009 10:09:06 GMT -6
If Vandenberg lights up Minnesota, who do you start at QB for the bowl game?
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Post by MoHawk on Nov 17, 2009 11:08:41 GMT -6
If Vandenberg lights up Minnesota, who do you start at QB for the bowl game? Stanzi. This is still his team and he got it to 9-0. That said, I think the hook is a whole lot shorter than before his injury. |
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Post by NotMyKid on Nov 17, 2009 13:10:12 GMT -6
If Vandenberg lights up Minnesota, who do you start at QB for the bowl game? Stanzi. This is still his team and he got it to 9-0. That said, I think the hook is a whole lot shorter than before his injury. I agree if JVB did what he did vs. tOSU before the Indiana game it would have been interesting to see what they would have done after Stanzi played so bad. I still think that Stanzi starts and stays in a game regardless of what happens look how long it took them to give Jake the hook last year. |
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