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Post by NotMyKid on Mar 22, 2010 9:26:32 GMT -6
#1 Are there problems? Did something need to be done?
And if you answered yes,
#2 Does the bill that was passed fix those problems?
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Post by lpcalihawk on Mar 22, 2010 10:25:44 GMT -6
It's a philosophical matter in my mind. Should we as a nation be OK with a system that profits on keeping people sick and not paying out benefits?
If you answer "no" to that question, then you should support a single-payer government controlled healthcare system.
If you answer "yes", then you should be fine with the status quo.
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Post by NOTTHOR on Mar 22, 2010 10:34:45 GMT -6
Well, lp, a single payer system ain't what we just got.
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Post by lpcalihawk on Mar 22, 2010 10:41:45 GMT -6
Well, lp, a single payer system ain't what we just got. Absolutely agree. It's more along the lines of the status quo.
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Post by socal on Mar 22, 2010 12:29:59 GMT -6
Well, lp, a single payer system ain't what we just got. Absolutely agree. It's more along the lines of the status quo. It is (will be) an improvement --- but a single payer program would have fixed & done more. Unfortunately the original blue prints for the bill called for big tent input on the provisions. Those doing the planning worked hard at making everyone happy. Which turned out to be impossible. Thus, we are stuck with a good to middling plan that will require a few years of hindsight to make the requirement of single payer be common knowledge. PS- We should all be sure to thank the Heritage Foundation & Bob Dole for the bill.
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Post by NotMyKid on Mar 22, 2010 13:26:45 GMT -6
The thing that makes me laugh is this bill actually helps the two groups that the public think are the biggest reason why health insurance is so expensive- Insurance Companies and Pharmaceutical companies.
It does nothing to actually tackle the biggest problem with Health Insurance, and that would be rising costs.
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Post by thunderhawk on Mar 22, 2010 13:46:15 GMT -6
If those industries get abusive one would hope that the government would do something about it since they are now on the hook.
On the whole I'm glad it passed if only for the patient's bill of rights kind of provisions.
This is literally a life or death issue. It needs to be taken a lot more seriously than it is. People fucking die because of lack of access. Working, taxpaying people. I'm really offended by politics-as-team-sport mentality regarding this issue. Other advanced nations are right to scoff at us for that.
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Post by The Bluzmn on Mar 22, 2010 15:25:41 GMT -6
The Democrats will now beat their chest for passing health care "reform" which actually accomplishes very little in the way of addressing the problems inherent in the system.
The Republicans will wring their hands and despair because communism has come to America when nothing of the sort has even remotely occurred.
Frankly, it was a whole lot of turmoil with nothing of any substance accomplished. Meanwhile, I received the notice today that my healthy wife and I who have used our health insurance the last four years for nothing but preventative care are having our premiums increased by 11% this year.
Thanks for fucking nothing, assholes. Throw all of those worthless, money-grubbing trogolodytes out of office.
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Post by NotMyKid on Mar 22, 2010 16:08:10 GMT -6
If those industries get abusive one would hope that the government would do something about it since they are now on the hook. that makes sense but they just passed a bill that the drug companies supported- What does that tell you. But generic makers stand to benefit from Congress's omitting a provision that had been proposed and that would have placed new restrictions on patent settlement agreements. Under such deals, some name-brand drug companies have paid or otherwise compensated generic makers to delay introducing new generics.
Critics, including the Federal Trade Commission, argue that such deals are anticompetitive. Jon Leibowitz, the chairman of the Federal Trade Commission, said last week that consumers would suffer if Congress allowed such deals to continue.
“The big winners are some of the branded pharmaceutical companies who have engaged in these deals and some of the generics who have done the same,” he said. “The big loser is the American consumer, who is going to have to pay an extra $3.5 billion a year in much-needed drugs.” www.nytimes.com/2010/03/22/business/22bizhealth.html
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Post by NotMyKid on Mar 22, 2010 16:10:35 GMT -6
Frankly, it was a whole lot of turmoil with nothing of any substance accomplished. Meanwhile, I received the notice today that my healthy wife and I who have used our health insurance the last four years for nothing but preventative care are having our premiums increased by 11% this year. It's only going to get worse.
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Post by socal on Mar 22, 2010 18:21:27 GMT -6
Meanwhile, I received the notice today that my healthy wife and I who have used our health insurance the last four years for nothing but preventative care are having our premiums increased by 11% this year. FREE MARKET BABY!!! You see... just because you and your wife are healthy and young at heart, doesn't mean the insurance company isn't keeping track of how terribly old you're getting.
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Post by Master Blaster on Mar 23, 2010 16:21:15 GMT -6
I am split between the decision to reform and keeping the status quo. I want everyone to have access to affordable health care, but I don't want the system becoming so swamped with stupid people looking for health care on trivial stuff that it takes months for me or my family to get an appointment and be seen. thankfully myself and my family will be covered under the Tricare system for the rest of my life with the VA giving the majority of the benefits and a reasonable copay maximum. Problem is that we are having a hard time getting into the system now because of the "free" basis of it. Can't imagine the whole country being enrolled.
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Post by thunderhawk on Mar 23, 2010 20:19:43 GMT -6
I am split between the decision to reform and keeping the status quo. I want everyone to have access to affordable health care, but I don't want the system becoming so swamped with stupid people looking for health care on trivial stuff that it takes months for me or my family to get an appointment and be seen. thankfully myself and my family will be covered under the Tricare system for the rest of my life with the VA giving the majority of the benefits and a reasonable copay maximum. Problem is that we are having a hard time getting into the system now because of the "free" basis of it. Can't imagine the whole country being enrolled. Well I know one thing for certain...we are gonna need a lot more primary care docs. And that ain't necessarily a bad thing. We need 'em already. Some humor courtesy of Joe "This is a big fucking deal" Biden:
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Post by socal on Mar 23, 2010 22:30:05 GMT -6
Well I know one thing for certain...we are gonna need a lot more primary care docs. And that ain't necessarily a bad thing. We need 'em already. From the Speaker's Blog - touting benefits: www.speaker.gov/blog/?p=2214... MORE PRIMARY CARE DOCTORS—Provides new investment in training programs to increase the number of primary care doctors, nurses, and public health professionals. Effective beginning in fiscal year 2010. ...
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Post by hawkeyedug on Mar 24, 2010 7:58:22 GMT -6
I want everyone to have access to affordable health care, but I don't want the system becoming so swamped with stupid people looking for health care on trivial stuff that it takes months for me or my family to get an appointment and be seen. The way I see it is that those people are already doing it as they have free health care via medicaid.
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Post by NOTTHOR on Mar 24, 2010 8:06:21 GMT -6
Well I know one thing for certain...we are gonna need a lot more primary care docs. And that ain't necessarily a bad thing. We need 'em already. From the Speaker's Blog - touting benefits: www.speaker.gov/blog/?p=2214... MORE PRIMARY CARE DOCTORS—Provides new investment in training programs to increase the number of primary care doctors, nurses, and public health professionals. Effective beginning in fiscal year 2010. ... I'm sorry but you don't need 2700 pages of legislation to do this. The Clinton Administration told the ABA (the association that accredits law schools) that it had to allow more schools to open or it would face serious antitrust consequences. The government could easily pursue a similar course of action against the AMA, which keeps a tight grip on the number of accredited medical schools in the US (in order to keep doctor wages from being gripped by the deflationary spiral that has hit lawyer wages) and is substantially responsible for the shortage of doctors. It really wouldn't take much. Of course the barriers to entry to opening a medical school are substantially higher than opening a law school, but since the Clinton consent decree, the number of law schools has exploded while the number of medical schools has stayed virtually unchanged (I think Hofstra is one of a few new med schools in the past 2 decades). Shit, Iowa has 2 law schools and only one medical school. Illinois must have a dozen law schools and only a handful of medical schools. We don't need more schlubs pushing shitpaper around, we need more god damned doctors, but most of our higher education funding goes to shit like Angry Studies and Political Science instead of fields of study that will actually train people to provide a useful service upon graduation.
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Post by thunderhawk on Mar 24, 2010 8:41:13 GMT -6
From the Speaker's Blog - touting benefits: www.speaker.gov/blog/?p=2214... MORE PRIMARY CARE DOCTORS—Provides new investment in training programs to increase the number of primary care doctors, nurses, and public health professionals. Effective beginning in fiscal year 2010. ... I'm sorry but you don't need 2700 pages of legislation to do this. The Clinton Administration told the ABA (the association that accredits law schools) that it had to allow more schools to open or it would face serious antitrust consequences. The government could easily pursue a similar course of action against the AMA, which keeps a tight grip on the number of accredited medical schools in the US (in order to keep doctor wages from being gripped by the deflationary spiral that has hit lawyer wages) and is substantially responsible for the shortage of doctors. It really wouldn't take much. Of course the barriers to entry to opening a medical school are substantially higher than opening a law school, but since the Clinton consent decree, the number of law schools has exploded while the number of medical schools has stayed virtually unchanged (I think Hofstra is one of a few new med schools in the past 2 decades). Shit, Iowa has 2 law schools and only one medical school. Illinois must have a dozen law schools and only a handful of medical schools. We don't need more schlubs pushing shitpaper around, we need more god damned doctors, but most of our higher education funding goes to shit like Angry Studies and Political Science instead of fields of study that will actually train people to provide a useful service upon graduation. You nailed that shit. Med schools are basically a fucking cartel. "Angry studies." LOL...that's fucking right on target. I'm not sure about the poli sci though...there's a lot of ignorant fucking people when it comes to basic civics in this nation. I think every curriculum should be mandated (I know, dirty word) to include at least basic econ, business, and financial studies course so a lot of these dumbfucks actually understand how first-world capitalism and economic systems function. There's so much ignorance of that shit that it makes me want to punch people sometimes. There are few things more infuriating than a couple of rubes loudly opining on "free markets" and "socialism." Fuck. As far as the health care bill, I guess the bottom line on it for me is that it was supported by just about every serious expert in the relevant fields of study and practice, so I'm glad it passed. I do a lot of deferring to experts in my profession (yes, that is hard on my ego) so I'm not afraid of the "elites." I hear a lot about how it's not "perfect" which I'm sure it isn't but with something so complicated I think "perfect" is an illusion anyway.
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Post by NOTTHOR on Mar 24, 2010 9:46:59 GMT -6
There are few things more infuriating than a couple of rubes loudly opining on "free markets" and "socialism." Fuck. Well, there are plenty of mouthbreathers on the right who see any government interference in a market, even that which is warranted, as socialism. For every one of them, there is a mouthbreather on the left who chants about the dangers of the free market whenever anything negative happens in a market. Both positions are equally stupid and require no understanding of the underlying economics. As a factual matter, three industries that receive the largest amounts of subsidies are the three industries that are in the news on a nearly daily basis these days, health care, higher education and housing. Anyone with an elementary understanding of economics can grasp how subsidies that shift the true "cost" of something onto the government ultimately drive up the price of a good or service, but unfortunately, the only plans our government seems to be able to come up with are more subsidies. Healthcare or higher education is more expensive now? Let's throw more subsidies at it. Housing is too low? Let's throw more subsidies at it. There are certain policy reasons for subsidies and I get those, but at some point, can't we try maybe scaling them back and letting the market clear? The problem is no one is willing to face the fact that if our country were a business that could not print its own money, it would not be a going concern under GAAP. Not even close. Serious shit has to change and soon. The days of the fat retirement at 62 funded by the taxpayers have to end. The days of 5% mortgages and 2% student loans have to end. The days of no one bargaining for health care services have to end. There are many "sick" markets in the country, but we have economically and financially illiterate dumbasses like Dubya, Grassley, Fwank and Pelosi driving policy and those fucksticks don't know their asses from a hole in the ground.
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Post by hawkeyedug on Mar 24, 2010 14:18:33 GMT -6
I would be more than happy if a few more med schools opened up real quick like. I plan on applying in a year and a half and the 15% acceptance rate at Iowa for the program I am applying for isn't very encouraging.
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Post by Master Blaster on Mar 24, 2010 19:19:59 GMT -6
[/quote] The problem is no one is willing to face the fact that if our country were a business that could not print its own money, it would not be a going concern under GAAP. Not even close. Serious shit has to change and soon. The days of the fat retirement at 62 funded by the taxpayers have to end. The days of 5% mortgages and 2% student loans have to end. The days of no one bargaining for health care services have to end. [/quote]
I hope that my retirement stays exactly the way it is. Starts this fall and goes the rest of my life. Sorry, but been working that for the last 22.5 years and I am not about to give it up without a to the death fight at this point. And since I am currently buying a house at 4.75%, jack that crap back up right after I close.
Last, if we increase the number of doctors, I sure as hell hope we don't water down the requirements to get there. Teach more, but don't change the standard. Most of those not finishing #1 in the class will be the ones examining you and me.
Edit: Hell, my dumb ass can't even get the quote done right.
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Post by NOTTHOR on Mar 24, 2010 21:55:35 GMT -6
The problem is no one is willing to face the fact that if our country were a business that could not print its own money, it would not be a going concern under GAAP. Not even close. Serious shit has to change and soon. The days of the fat retirement at 62 funded by the taxpayers have to end. The days of 5% mortgages and 2% student loans have to end. The days of no one bargaining for health care services have to end. [/quote] I hope that my retirement stays exactly the way it is. Starts this fall and goes the rest of my life. Sorry, but been working that for the last 22.5 years and I am not about to give it up without a to the death fight at this point. And since I am currently buying a house at 4.75%, jack that crap back up right after I close. Last, if we increase the number of doctors, I sure as hell hope we don't water down the requirements to get there. Teach more, but don't change the standard. Most of those not finishing #1 in the class will be the ones examining you and me. Edit: Hell, my dumb ass can't even get the quote done right. [/quote] To the extent your retirement is a contractual obligation arising out of your service, I have no problem honoring that (same as when the bailouts happened and the CEOs still got paid their contractual obligations - the government's power to void contracts is very limited). The military pensions are bargained for and aren't going to bankrupt us and are fine because they are in exchange for lower wages during working years. It's the socialist insecurity and medicare that are the things that will bankrupt my generation. It's slackers like Ron and my parents who are the problem, not Seth and MCPO.
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Post by socal on Mar 24, 2010 22:28:53 GMT -6
To the extent your retirement is a contractual obligation arising out of your service, I have no problem honoring that (same as when the bailouts happened and the CEOs still got paid their contractual obligations - the government's power to void contracts is very limited). The military pensions are bargained for and aren't going to bankrupt us and are fine because they are in exchange for lower wages during working years. It's the socialist insecurity and medicare that are the things that will bankrupt my generation. It's slackers like Ron and my parents who are the problem, not Seth and MCPO. Bullshit!!! The lifetime series' of injections they need to combat all their pre-old-ball port-of-call acquired venereal diseases will cost more than any 100 grandmothers.
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Post by Saggitariutt Jefferspin (ith) on Mar 25, 2010 10:15:14 GMT -6
DIABITES IS FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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