Reagan Documentary

[lpcalihawk]

Watched it on HBO last night. HBO makes great documentaries. Really showed different sides to Reagan. Some of the Tea Baggers should go back and look at some of Reagan's policies.......they really don't fit their perceptions.

[thunderhawk]

Reagan was a pragmatist. He actually raised taxes 6 of his 8 years in office. He offered amnesty to illegals. He worked with Tip O'Neil to get things done. He engaged Gorbachev to reduce nuclear arsenals. He wasn't the nihilistic fucktard the teabaggers wish he was.

He sure did spawn a crop of motherfucking assholes who would skullfuck his corpse until their peckers fell off, though. To watch cumsucking pigs like Gingrich and Palin and the rest of that worthless lot try to be the "new Reagan" is pretty fucking disgusting.

You know who the "new Reagan" is? It's fucking Obama!

[lpcalihawk]

Pretty amazing to realize that Reagan was on the verge of signing a treaty that would have led to no nukes in the USA/USSR.....unfortunately he wouldn't budge on Star Wars; thus, we still have old USSR nukes now on the black market being sold to people who want to kill Americans.

Reagan's economic policies were not those of a "fiscal conservative".

[Deleted]

Feb 8, 2011 11:32:14 GMT -6 thunderhawk said:

Reagan was a pragmatist. He actually raised taxes 6 of his 8 years in office. He offered amnesty to illegals. He worked with Tip O'Neil to get things done. He engaged Gorbachev to reduce nuclear arsenals. He wasn't the nihilistic fucktard the teabaggers wish he was.

He sure did spawn a crop of motherfucking assholes who would skullfuck his corpse until their peckers fell off, though. To watch cumsucking pigs like Gingrich and Palin and the rest of that worthless lot try to be the "new Reagan" is pretty fucking disgusting.

You know who the "new Reagan" is? It's fucking Obama!

Oh to be able to cut & paste this verbatim on TOS, so as to shove it up Big Gub's ass.

[The Bluzmn]

The "Reagan Recovery" has always been a sore spot for me. His sycophants will tell you about supply side economics, but in reality, he presided over some of the largest marginal tax increases in history and the "recovery" was limited to those areas where historical amounts of defense spending were taking place. Hmmmm........"tax".....and......"spend." That would make the tea baggers heads explode.

His chief economic adviser was on Bill Maher a couple of weeks ago and he sounded just like an old school Democrat.

[Master Blaster]

Feb 8, 2011 13:49:08 GMT -6 The Bluzmn said:

The "Reagan Recovery" has always been a sore spot for me. His sycophants will tell you about supply side economics, but in reality, he presided over some of the largest marginal tax increases in history and the "recovery" was limited to those areas where historical amounts of defense spending were taking place. Hmmmm........"tax".....and......"spend." That would make the tea baggers heads explode.

His chief economic adviser was on Bill Maher a couple of weeks ago and he sounded just like an old school Democrat.

And the tax/ spend philosphy sent USSR into bankruptcy, thus killing the cold war. If it wasn't for his anti-environmental attitude, the guy would have been akin to a god. Carter in effect lost when RR pointed out that it doesn't have to be all gloom and doom. Would have been nice if RR had left the solar panels on the white house though.

[The Bluzmn]

Feb 9, 2011 11:21:47 GMT -6 Master Blaster said:

Feb 8, 2011 13:49:08 GMT -6 The Bluzmn said:

The "Reagan Recovery" has always been a sore spot for me. His sycophants will tell you about supply side economics, but in reality, he presided over some of the largest marginal tax increases in history and the "recovery" was limited to those areas where historical amounts of defense spending were taking place. Hmmmm........"tax".....and......"spend." That would make the tea baggers heads explode.

His chief economic adviser was on Bill Maher a couple of weeks ago and he sounded just like an old school Democrat.

And the tax/ spend philosphy sent USSR into bankruptcy, thus killing the cold war. If it wasn't for his anti-environmental attitude, the guy would have been akin to a god. Carter in effect lost when RR pointed out that it doesn't have to be all gloom and doom. Would have been nice if RR had left the solar panels on the white house though.

Apparently I didn't make my point clear. I was an economics major and believe strongly in Keynesian economics - i.e. government spending to stimulate a lagging economy. That is exactly what Reagan did, but his followers will talk about monetarism and supply-side economics, which is a fallacy. Whatever the result was on the USSR, the result in this country was economic recovery for those regions where it occurred.

[The Flying Spaghetti Monster]

economics majors = teats on a boar

[Master Blaster]

Feb 9, 2011 15:43:28 GMT -6 The Bluzmn said:

Feb 9, 2011 11:21:47 GMT -6 Master Blaster said:

And the tax/ spend philosphy sent USSR into bankruptcy, thus killing the cold war. If it wasn't for his anti-environmental attitude, the guy would have been akin to a god. Carter in effect lost when RR pointed out that it doesn't have to be all gloom and doom. Would have been nice if RR had left the solar panels on the white house though.

Apparently I didn't make my point clear. I was an economics major and believe strongly in Keynesian economics - i.e. government spending to stimulate a lagging economy. That is exactly what Reagan did, but his followers will talk about monetarism and supply-side economics, which is a fallacy. Whatever the result was on the USSR, the result in this country was economic recovery for those regions where it occurred.

Your point is clear. Was just adding to the conversation there boar teats.

[NOTTHOR]

Feb 9, 2011 15:43:28 GMT -6 The Bluzmn said:

Feb 9, 2011 11:21:47 GMT -6 Master Blaster said:

And the tax/ spend philosphy sent USSR into bankruptcy, thus killing the cold war. If it wasn't for his anti-environmental attitude, the guy would have been akin to a god. Carter in effect lost when RR pointed out that it doesn't have to be all gloom and doom. Would have been nice if RR had left the solar panels on the white house though.

Apparently I didn't make my point clear. I was an economics major and believe strongly in Keynesian economics - i.e. government spending to stimulate a lagging economy. That is exactly what Reagan did, but his followers will talk about monetarism and supply-side economics, which is a fallacy. Whatever the result was on the USSR, the result in this country was economic recovery for those regions where it occurred.

First, all Presidents are Keynesian, irregardless of whether the economy is lagging or booming. They have moderate disagreements on whether Uncle Sugar's largess will be spent on guns or butter (or in Bush's case, guns and butter), but they are all about spending shittons of fucking cash.

Second, I like the Gipper, but I don't think he was any kind of fucking genius. His palms were just greased by the god damned defense contractors, he chose guns over butter, the Soviet Union collapsed and everyone thought there was some causal relationship there and we got all these fucking stories about how Reagan spent the Soviets into oblivion. Bullshit. That's the popular answer, and I'd like to believe it, but I think the truth is a combination of two things (a) the fucking plutocrats who ran the Soviet Union got sick and fucking tired of printing god damned food ration coupons and saw how the plutocrats running the US were doing shit and figured it'd be a helluva lot easier to follow that path and (b) the proles got sick and fucking tired of dealing with food ration coupons and shit while Americans and West Germans were getting fat as fuck off whatever the hell they wanted to eat.

A little sidebar, I have a good buddy who married a Russian gal who moved to the US in the late 80's. This chick tells a story of her mom breaking down in tears at an A&P in Staten Island like 2 days after they moved to the US when the people who helped them move to the US told them they could buy whatever the fuck they wanted subject only to the dollars in their pockets. Stories like that got back to the Soviet Union and the god damned proles were pissed off - sure you can call Reagan a fucking saint all day long, but at the end of the day when the economic system stifles all incentives to produce, people are going to go hungry and hungry people revolt, hence my support of food stamps.

Third, Reagan did great things like getting rid of the stupid fucking price controls and shit like that some cockeyed liberal cooked up and that helped the economy tremendously.

Fourth, if Paul Fucking Volcker didn't get inflation under control, Reagan would have been fucked. The head of the Fed is one of the single biggest determinants of presidential success, that guy fucks up, the President looks like a fucking goat, that guy does well, the President looks like a fucking genius. Greenspan masterfully papered over a lot of god damned structural problems in this country during his term and made a lot of things look pretty, then the god damned credit card bill came due in 2008 and Bush looked like the biggest fuckstick to ever walk the planet. Bernanke is walking a tight rope right now with Soetoro, fucking prices of everything are going way up due to Bernanke's printing press, but these fucking clowns are insisting there is no inflation - if gas hits $4 again Soetoro is fucking doomed.

[thunderhawk]

Feb 9, 2011 11:21:47 GMT -6 Master Blaster said:

Feb 8, 2011 13:49:08 GMT -6 The Bluzmn said:

The "Reagan Recovery" has always been a sore spot for me. His sycophants will tell you about supply side economics, but in reality, he presided over some of the largest marginal tax increases in history and the "recovery" was limited to those areas where historical amounts of defense spending were taking place. Hmmmm........"tax".....and......"spend." That would make the tea baggers heads explode.

His chief economic adviser was on Bill Maher a couple of weeks ago and he sounded just like an old school Democrat.

And the tax/ spend philosphy sent USSR into bankruptcy, thus killing the cold war. If it wasn't for his anti-environmental attitude, the guy would have been akin to a god. Carter in effect lost when RR pointed out that it doesn't have to be all gloom and doom. Would have been nice if RR had left the solar panels on the white house though.

James Fucking Watt is the reason Reagan will never break into my top ten list. Seriously. What the fuck was that.

[thunderhawk]

Earlier this month, the media world suspended its cynicism to celebrate -- and not just to recognize -- the 100th anniversary of Ronald Reagan's birth. Republican leaders went further: Newt Gingrich said the former president was "a beacon of light whose faith in the American people will continue to inspire." Republican National Committee Chairman Reince Priebus said that Reagan's "memory reminds us of the promise America carries for each of its citizens." And Sarah Palin said that "President Reagan held up a mirror to the American soul to remind us of our exceptionalism."

Reagan is venerated for good reason -- as President Obama put it, he "changed the trajectory of America in a way that Richard Nixon did not and in a way that Bill Clinton did not." More than any other figure, Reagan set a tone that continues to shape national politics. "Government is not the solution to our problem, government is the problem" -- the defining line of Reagan's first inaugural -- remains the rallying cry for two generations of conservative voters and politicians.

But here's what the hagiographies ignore: Reagan's record -- his real record -- would repel most of the social and economic conservatives who now deify him.

Palin said that "President Reagan would be so proud of the conservative movement today." But it is awfully hard to imagine today's conservative movement even including someone like Reagan.

Today's conservative movement, reanimated by the tea party, has fought to defeat prominent Republicans for being insufficiently conservative. Endorsed by Palin, many of this year's GOP nominees -- in California, Delaware, Nevada, Colorado, Minnesota, and elsewhere -- fell short in statewide general elections more moderate Republicans might have won. As one conservative House committee chairman complained, "Sarah Palin cost us control of the Senate." The former Alaska governor stood by her picks, saying she supports "pro-life, pro-Second Amendment ... conservatives who have never voted for a tax increase."

But those criteria would mean rejecting Reagan.

As governor of California, Reagan spoke out against "welfare bums" and big government, attacked the Democratic legislature, and sent National Guard troops to crack down on Berkeley protesters -- just as Republicans remember. But he also signed the law that legalized abortion in California, signed the law that allowed no-fault divorce for the first time, and championed and approved the largest tax increase in state history (an increase that represented 30 percent of the state general fund). He raised sales taxes, corporate taxes, inheritance taxes, liquor taxes, cigarette taxes, and the top income tax rate. Under Governor Reagan, the California Air Resources Board (so-called "command and control" environmental regulation) was founded, and real spending increased almost 13 percent -- more than under his Democratic successor, Jerry Brown. Reagan even signed the Mulford Act, "prohibiting the carrying of firearms on one's person or in a vehicle, in any public place or on any public street."

As president, Reagan spoke out against "the Evil Empire" and the air traffic controllers, attacked the Democratic Congress, and cut taxes dramatically in 1981 -- just as Republicans remember. But Reagan also raised taxes at least seven times. In 1982 alone, he raised taxes twice, including the largest peacetime tax increase in American history. He raised payroll taxes, gas taxes, and corporate taxes. In fact, Reagan raised taxes every year he was president but the first and the last. He also raised spending by nearly a quarter in real terms -- more than double the increase under President Clinton. He added a new Cabinet department (Veterans' Affairs). In all, Reagan grew the federal civilian workforce by about 200,000; Clinton cut it by about 200,000. The national debt skyrocketed from $700 billion to nearly $3 trillion. And, as Michael Kinsley has written, "[the Democratic] Congress did not force Reagan to spend all this money. His total budget requests exceeded the amounts Congress appropriated."

On defense, yes, Reagan grew the Pentagon's budget, but he also negotiated sweeping arms control deals with Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev. He even signed the United Nations Convention Against Torture that banned harsh interrogation techniques even under "exceptional circumstances." (Today's GOP leaders attack the UN and oppose relatively modest arms control treaties like New START.)

On social issues, Reagan's record was even less conservative. Reagan spoke about prayer in schools and ending abortion rights -- but did little about either. He appointed the pro-choice Sandra Day O'Connor to the Supreme Court. He even granted amnesty -- yes, amnesty -- to nearly three million illegal immigrants.

In a 1984 campaign debate, Reagan said, "I believe in the idea of amnesty for those who have put down roots and lived here, even though sometime back they may have entered illegally."

Here's a thought: some reporter should tell Palin a Democrat had just spoken those words.

Somehow it seems doubtful her response would be, "How Reaganesque."

www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/02/what-palin-and-other-gop-leaders-doesnt-get-about-ronald-reagan/71178/

[socal]

Feb 17, 2011 11:09:01 GMT -6 thunderhawk said:

Earlier this month, the media world suspended its cynicism to celebrate -- and not just to recognize -- the 100th anniversary of Ronald Reagan's birth. Republican leaders went further: Newt Gingrich said the former president was "a beacon of light whose faith in the American people will continue to inspire." Republican National Committee Chairman Reince Priebus said that Reagan's "memory reminds us of the promise America carries for each of its citizens." And Sarah Palin said that "President Reagan held up a mirror to the American soul to remind us of our exceptionalism."

Reagan is venerated for good reason -- as President Obama put it, he "changed the trajectory of America in a way that Richard Nixon did not and in a way that Bill Clinton did not." More than any other figure, Reagan set a tone that continues to shape national politics. "Government is not the solution to our problem, government is the problem" -- the defining line of Reagan's first inaugural -- remains the rallying cry for two generations of conservative voters and politicians.

But here's what the hagiographies ignore: Reagan's record -- his real record -- would repel most of the social and economic conservatives who now deify him.

Palin said that "President Reagan would be so proud of the conservative movement today." But it is awfully hard to imagine today's conservative movement even including someone like Reagan.

Today's conservative movement, reanimated by the tea party, has fought to defeat prominent Republicans for being insufficiently conservative. Endorsed by Palin, many of this year's GOP nominees -- in California, Delaware, Nevada, Colorado, Minnesota, and elsewhere -- fell short in statewide general elections more moderate Republicans might have won. As one conservative House committee chairman complained, "Sarah Palin cost us control of the Senate." The former Alaska governor stood by her picks, saying she supports "pro-life, pro-Second Amendment ... conservatives who have never voted for a tax increase."

But those criteria would mean rejecting Reagan.

As governor of California, Reagan spoke out against "welfare bums" and big government, attacked the Democratic legislature, and sent National Guard troops to crack down on Berkeley protesters -- just as Republicans remember. But he also signed the law that legalized abortion in California, signed the law that allowed no-fault divorce for the first time, and championed and approved the largest tax increase in state history (an increase that represented 30 percent of the state general fund). He raised sales taxes, corporate taxes, inheritance taxes, liquor taxes, cigarette taxes, and the top income tax rate. Under Governor Reagan, the California Air Resources Board (so-called "command and control" environmental regulation) was founded, and real spending increased almost 13 percent -- more than under his Democratic successor, Jerry Brown. Reagan even signed the Mulford Act, "prohibiting the carrying of firearms on one's person or in a vehicle, in any public place or on any public street."

As president, Reagan spoke out against "the Evil Empire" and the air traffic controllers, attacked the Democratic Congress, and cut taxes dramatically in 1981 -- just as Republicans remember. But Reagan also raised taxes at least seven times. In 1982 alone, he raised taxes twice, including the largest peacetime tax increase in American history. He raised payroll taxes, gas taxes, and corporate taxes. In fact, Reagan raised taxes every year he was president but the first and the last. He also raised spending by nearly a quarter in real terms -- more than double the increase under President Clinton. He added a new Cabinet department (Veterans' Affairs). In all, Reagan grew the federal civilian workforce by about 200,000; Clinton cut it by about 200,000. The national debt skyrocketed from $700 billion to nearly $3 trillion. And, as Michael Kinsley has written, "[the Democratic] Congress did not force Reagan to spend all this money. His total budget requests exceeded the amounts Congress appropriated."

On defense, yes, Reagan grew the Pentagon's budget, but he also negotiated sweeping arms control deals with Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev. He even signed the United Nations Convention Against Torture that banned harsh interrogation techniques even under "exceptional circumstances." (Today's GOP leaders attack the UN and oppose relatively modest arms control treaties like New START.)

On social issues, Reagan's record was even less conservative. Reagan spoke about prayer in schools and ending abortion rights -- but did little about either. He appointed the pro-choice Sandra Day O'Connor to the Supreme Court. He even granted amnesty -- yes, amnesty -- to nearly three million illegal immigrants.

In a 1984 campaign debate, Reagan said, "I believe in the idea of amnesty for those who have put down roots and lived here, even though sometime back they may have entered illegally."

Here's a thought: some reporter should tell Palin a Democrat had just spoken those words.

Somehow it seems doubtful her response would be, "How Reaganesque."

www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/02/what-palin-and-other-gop-leaders-doesnt-get-about-ronald-reagan/71178/

Sounds quite similar to the fucking Mormons baptizing victims of the Holocaust.

[lpcalihawk]

Feb 17, 2011 11:09:01 GMT -6 thunderhawk said:

Earlier this month, the media world suspended its cynicism to celebrate -- and not just to recognize -- the 100th anniversary of Ronald Reagan's birth. Republican leaders went further: Newt Gingrich said the former president was "a beacon of light whose faith in the American people will continue to inspire." Republican National Committee Chairman Reince Priebus said that Reagan's "memory reminds us of the promise America carries for each of its citizens." And Sarah Palin said that "President Reagan held up a mirror to the American soul to remind us of our exceptionalism."

Reagan is venerated for good reason -- as President Obama put it, he "changed the trajectory of America in a way that Richard Nixon did not and in a way that Bill Clinton did not." More than any other figure, Reagan set a tone that continues to shape national politics. "Government is not the solution to our problem, government is the problem" -- the defining line of Reagan's first inaugural -- remains the rallying cry for two generations of conservative voters and politicians.

But here's what the hagiographies ignore: Reagan's record -- his real record -- would repel most of the social and economic conservatives who now deify him.

Palin said that "President Reagan would be so proud of the conservative movement today." But it is awfully hard to imagine today's conservative movement even including someone like Reagan.

Today's conservative movement, reanimated by the tea party, has fought to defeat prominent Republicans for being insufficiently conservative. Endorsed by Palin, many of this year's GOP nominees -- in California, Delaware, Nevada, Colorado, Minnesota, and elsewhere -- fell short in statewide general elections more moderate Republicans might have won. As one conservative House committee chairman complained, "Sarah Palin cost us control of the Senate." The former Alaska governor stood by her picks, saying she supports "pro-life, pro-Second Amendment ... conservatives who have never voted for a tax increase."

But those criteria would mean rejecting Reagan.

As governor of California, Reagan spoke out against "welfare bums" and big government, attacked the Democratic legislature, and sent National Guard troops to crack down on Berkeley protesters -- just as Republicans remember. But he also signed the law that legalized abortion in California, signed the law that allowed no-fault divorce for the first time, and championed and approved the largest tax increase in state history (an increase that represented 30 percent of the state general fund). He raised sales taxes, corporate taxes, inheritance taxes, liquor taxes, cigarette taxes, and the top income tax rate. Under Governor Reagan, the California Air Resources Board (so-called "command and control" environmental regulation) was founded, and real spending increased almost 13 percent -- more than under his Democratic successor, Jerry Brown. Reagan even signed the Mulford Act, "prohibiting the carrying of firearms on one's person or in a vehicle, in any public place or on any public street."

As president, Reagan spoke out against "the Evil Empire" and the air traffic controllers, attacked the Democratic Congress, and cut taxes dramatically in 1981 -- just as Republicans remember. But Reagan also raised taxes at least seven times. In 1982 alone, he raised taxes twice, including the largest peacetime tax increase in American history. He raised payroll taxes, gas taxes, and corporate taxes. In fact, Reagan raised taxes every year he was president but the first and the last. He also raised spending by nearly a quarter in real terms -- more than double the increase under President Clinton. He added a new Cabinet department (Veterans' Affairs). In all, Reagan grew the federal civilian workforce by about 200,000; Clinton cut it by about 200,000. The national debt skyrocketed from $700 billion to nearly $3 trillion. And, as Michael Kinsley has written, "[the Democratic] Congress did not force Reagan to spend all this money. His total budget requests exceeded the amounts Congress appropriated."

On defense, yes, Reagan grew the Pentagon's budget, but he also negotiated sweeping arms control deals with Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev. He even signed the United Nations Convention Against Torture that banned harsh interrogation techniques even under "exceptional circumstances." (Today's GOP leaders attack the UN and oppose relatively modest arms control treaties like New START.)

On social issues, Reagan's record was even less conservative. Reagan spoke about prayer in schools and ending abortion rights -- but did little about either. He appointed the pro-choice Sandra Day O'Connor to the Supreme Court. He even granted amnesty -- yes, amnesty -- to nearly three million illegal immigrants.

In a 1984 campaign debate, Reagan said, "I believe in the idea of amnesty for those who have put down roots and lived here, even though sometime back they may have entered illegally."

Here's a thought: some reporter should tell Palin a Democrat had just spoken those words.

Somehow it seems doubtful her response would be, "How Reaganesque."

www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/02/what-palin-and-other-gop-leaders-doesnt-get-about-ronald-reagan/71178/

Great article, Thunder. I'll bookmark that fucker and link it to every post by a GOPer stroking Reagan.