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MCPO
Mar 16, 2011 10:16:32 GMT -6
Post by socal on Mar 16, 2011 10:16:32 GMT -6
I keep reading about Japan & their reactor "issues", and keep thinking MCPO might have some insight...
I'm wondering if your replacement on the Reagan is having a say in dealing with the reactor mess - or would his time be solely devoted to the boat?
Relatedly, why couldn't they pull one of Reagan's group ships close to shore, shoot a tow line and pull out a long-fucking fire hose - to pump water to the nuke facility?
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MCPO
Mar 18, 2011 13:47:16 GMT -6
Post by Master Blaster on Mar 18, 2011 13:47:16 GMT -6
My replacement is dealing with stuff on the boat only. A friend, the Reactor Lab chief, is doing surveys throughout the ship now, vice just the plants. He gets to deal with decon messes after they get back. the 17 air crewmen that were in the news for example. Can't get the RR close enough to shore to do what you want. she has a 50 foot draft, needs to be clear of the debris and stuff in the water, and would be subject to the radioactive cloud the whole time. Basically, not an option.
Here is my take on this situation. They need to get the water running and get the water in. Wonder if they have brought in external pumps and hoses along with portable generators. If they can't get the helicopter closer than about a hundred feet without exceeding dose limits, how are they going to rig portable stuff though? those worrying about radiation here in the states are stupidly wasting their worrying power. By the time it gets here, if it does, it is so diluted the exposure will be almost nothing. Those buying PI pills here are stupid as well. PI basically fills your thyroid with PI, preventing radioactive iodine from concentrating there. It doesn't stop exposure, it isn't an anti radiation pill. It may prevent some long term effects, but that is about it. The wind is shifting today, towards Sengai. Those poor bastards are going to get some radiation fallout, but the amount is likely going to be pretty low. The news is really blowing the radiation exposure part out of context. A few micro rem, which is what they might get, isn't going to kill you unless you are exposed to it for long periods of time. A micro rem is about 1x10^6 th of a rem. About 100-200 rem exposure is when you start to see signs of radiation sickness. 250r is when lethal doses start, 1000 rem and you are dead. Pretty much anything over 500 and you can kiss your ass goodbye. These people are going to get somewhere in the neighborhood of 1-2 rem. That is significant exposure, but it isn't going to kill you. For further perspective, you, me and everyone else gets about 360 mrem (.36 rem) every year from background exposure. that is sun, soil, food, concrete, stone, etc. Last, but not least, when looking at exposure, remember it is effected by time, distance and shielding. The more of those you have, the lower the exposure you get from a source.
RR is doing search and rescue missions as well as delivering supplies. she has a facebook site with new photos everyday. They also have links talking to the dependants of those onboard explaining what they are doing to avoid the exposure/ mitigate the risk. Some good info that the news isn't putting out.
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MCPO
Mar 18, 2011 14:32:44 GMT -6
Post by NotMyKid on Mar 18, 2011 14:32:44 GMT -6
That is the shit that pisses me off. Why can't they just say that shit on the news instead of trying to build the fucker up like anybody that lives in Tokyo will be exposed and their head will explode within a month.
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MCPO
Mar 18, 2011 14:38:33 GMT -6
Post by thunderhawk on Mar 18, 2011 14:38:33 GMT -6
That is the shit that pisses me off. Why can't they just say that shit on the news instead of trying to build the fucker up like anybody that lives in Tokyo will be exposed and their head will explode within a month. Cuz the Media has the wet-dream trifecta of ETN! (Earthquake Tsunami Nuke!) going on and goddamn if they are gonna let that baby go without a fight. Media gold like that doesn't just drop every day, you know.
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MCPO
Mar 18, 2011 17:26:26 GMT -6
Post by Master Blaster on Mar 18, 2011 17:26:26 GMT -6
People don't think something through. They hear the news and take it for gospel. Perfect example, I heard the news wondering why we aren't sending people in to operate the plant, basically take over. Answer, because every plant is different, we aren't qualified, we'd be playing a guessing game at operational controls, the language barrier (imagine trying to read a japanese tech manual), etc. It doesn't just have an on/off switch you know?
Anyways, I was slightly off on the estimates for lethal dose rate. The mortality effects are 5-10% expected at 150 R. That is about 1.5 Sv if you are wondering. These workers have been extended to receive 25mSv or about 25 rem. They are still way below the lethal dose rates, way below the effects rate (starts at about 5% at 25R up to the 150 R range). what this basically means that even the workers, those directly in contact with operating the reactor, are going to be well short of serious issues in regards to radiation. you and me will not see anything significant. If we get a micro rem I'll be impressed. Those in Japan might get, and this is a big might, about 25 mRem. Nothing significant here. The news is full of crap.
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MCPO
Mar 21, 2011 18:47:21 GMT -6
Post by Solar Stud on Mar 21, 2011 18:47:21 GMT -6
I've been getting calls at work from worried patrons if we have any potassium iodide they can swallow....shit man, that stuff will kill you faster than any diluted-down supposedly japanese radiation.
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MCPO
Mar 21, 2011 19:15:08 GMT -6
Post by Master Blaster on Mar 21, 2011 19:15:08 GMT -6
Give them the pills, let Darwin work his magic.
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MCPO
Mar 25, 2011 10:59:05 GMT -6
Post by The Flying Spaghetti Monster on Mar 25, 2011 10:59:05 GMT -6
Another question MCPO.
It seems the whole problem is a lack of power because the fucktard architects, engineers, and cheap ass corporate executives placed the back-up generators on a fucking tsunami flood plain next to the beach. WTF?
I guess my question is, if you're going to plop six nuclear reactors down on a beach next to a major fault-line, wouldn't you at least protect one turbine along with the reactors? Wouldn't that at least greatly increase the odds of maintaining critical power no matter what is going on in the rest of the surrounding world?
Or am I just a stupid prole fucktard like Thunder and Duff?
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MCPO
Mar 25, 2011 11:33:05 GMT -6
Post by thunderhawk on Mar 25, 2011 11:33:05 GMT -6
Another question MCPO. It seems the whole problem is a lack of power because the fucktard architects, engineers, and cheap ass corporate executives placed the back-up generators on a fucking tsunami flood plain next to the beach. WTF? I guess my question is, if you're going to plop six nuclear reactors down on a beach next to a major fault-line, wouldn't you at least protect one turbine along with the reactors? Wouldn't that at least greatly increase the odds of maintaining critical power no matter what is going on in the rest of the surrounding world? Or am I just a stupid prole fucktard like Thunder and Duff? I may just be a stupid prole fucktard, but I'm a little concerned about the tons of spent nuclear waste with a half life way longer than human civilization has existed which nobody knows how to safely dispose of. Short of launching that shit into the vastness of outer space, I'm just not feeling it.
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MCPO
Mar 25, 2011 11:41:51 GMT -6
Post by lpcalihawk on Mar 25, 2011 11:41:51 GMT -6
Another question MCPO. It seems the whole problem is a lack of power because the fucktard architects, engineers, and cheap ass corporate executives placed the back-up generators on a fucking tsunami flood plain next to the beach. WTF? I guess my question is, if you're going to plop six nuclear reactors down on a beach next to a major fault-line, wouldn't you at least protect one turbine along with the reactors? Wouldn't that at least greatly increase the odds of maintaining critical power no matter what is going on in the rest of the surrounding world? Or am I just a stupid prole fucktard like Thunder and Duff? I may just be a stupid prole fucktard, but I'm a little concerned about the tons of spent nuclear waste with a half life way longer than human civilization has existed which nobody knows how to safely dispose of. Short of launching that shit into the vastness of outer space, I'm just not feeling it. Yucca Mountain MotherFucker
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MCPO
Mar 25, 2011 11:45:54 GMT -6
Post by The Flying Spaghetti Monster on Mar 25, 2011 11:45:54 GMT -6
After watching the last few rockets blow up (the ones that are supposed to be 'replacing' the space shuttle, not imitating the space shuttle), I'm not ready to be any where near that program unless we put the launch pads in Israel and launch them to the east.
...but that would involved moving the hot shit, and if we're going to do that, lets round them up one at a time, close down the interstate, and haul the hot shit to Yucca Mountain with the 101st AB and 1st Marine Division in escort of each one.
Expensive and inconvenient, yes. But it makes a whole lot more sense that having this hot shit scattered all over the country with fucking Per Mar guarding them.
This is one issues I strongly disagree with Barry POTUS on.
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MCPO
Mar 25, 2011 21:24:25 GMT -6
Post by thunderhawk on Mar 25, 2011 21:24:25 GMT -6
After watching the last few rockets blow up (the ones that are supposed to be 'replacing' the space shuttle, not imitating the space shuttle), I'm not ready to be any where near that program unless we put the launch pads in Israel and launch them to the east. ...but that would involved moving the hot shit, and if we're going to do that, lets round them up one at a time, close down the interstate, and haul the hot shit to Yucca Mountain with the 101st AB and 1st Marine Division in escort of each one. Expensive and inconvenient, yes. But it makes a whole lot more sense that having this hot shit scattered all over the country with fucking Per Mar guarding them. This is one issues I strongly disagree with Barry POTUS on. Barry's a fucking bought and paid for shill for homestate fav Exelon. www.exeloncorp.com/home.aspxBTW isn't Yucca mountain smack dab on top of a fucking fault line??? Brilliant.
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MCPO
Mar 26, 2011 13:08:53 GMT -6
Post by Master Blaster on Mar 26, 2011 13:08:53 GMT -6
Here is the US map with geo activity: www.ehso.com/ehshome/diastersearthquakerisk.htmRelatively stable, with little fault type zones. Also, yucca is very dry and not near a watershed of any type. Some info on yucca mtn: www.yuccamountain.org/map.htmJapan should have had better placement of their fuel tanks supporting their diesel generators. The reason is that once the reactors scram, steam stops and electrical power production stops. The power is then supplied by the grid. In this case, the grid ceased to exist. They then went to the diesel generators, which I understand operated for a bit. But with the tanks being taken away by the tsunami, that killed that b/u. Add in the damage to local infrastructure, the earthquake damage, and everything else and you get a major problem. Now, for perspective, the amount of radiation released is measurable, but not extremely high to the point of causing a immediate risk. Short term cumulative is significant, bt rad levels are dropping now that water is covering those ponds. The iodine from the fission product release has a 8 day half life. The cesium has a 30 year half life. so, in about a month or so after release, you will have 1/2 of a source that will remain for a substantial time. From what I have read here: www.iaea.org/the levels are dropping and not a huge amount. But they are present. Japan just took a 309 billion dollar hit to the economy. Replacing the nuclear power infrastructure that supports 50% or more of their electrical power generation isn't going to happen anytime soon. A couple points to ponder: 1) not a single related fatality to radiation release in this accident. 2) It was a8.9 earthquake, and a 40 foot wave tsunami and yet they had it under control until the entire surrounding area and their fuel supply dissappeared. 3) This accident is between Chernobyl and TMI. 4) we have 6 of these BWR reactors in the US. 5) The real issue was the containment ponds, not the cores. 6) Spent fuel is transferred via train, not via road. And that train is a heavily guarded mofo. In addition, the casks the fuel travels in are about as tough as you can design something. Drop a 500 lb bomb and score a direct hit and you wouldn't do crap to them. 7) if japan gets rid of nucs, then they will need more oil. that means competing demand and higher prices for you and me. 8) More people have died from wind production in the US than nuclear in the last 40 years. 9) All of our plants are looking at this and asking if it applies to them. How would they handle it? Not like we just move on. trust me when I say that the rest of this community will be looking at lessons learned big time. 10) These were reactors that were an older design with zero capacity for natural circulation. All were brought on line in the 70's. Newer reactors can cool themselves with a loss of power. I know it is lengthy, but JQ public really doesn't look at the whole picture. they hear radiation and think it means a death sentence. hell, we all get radiation from our food, soil, dental xrays, flying etc. You get more flying a couple of times in a year than I got working next to a reactor on deployment for 6 months. my life time exposure, 22 years is 1 rem. And I worked in the spaces and on the systems. Facts are that even in spite of the accident, this is our safest energy production system and our cleanest.
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MCPO
Mar 26, 2011 22:13:20 GMT -6
Post by thunderhawk on Mar 26, 2011 22:13:20 GMT -6
Speaking of radiation exposure... Forget the reactors...the soil will radiate your ass in Iowa.
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MCPO
Mar 26, 2011 23:02:51 GMT -6
Post by Master Blaster on Mar 26, 2011 23:02:51 GMT -6
Exactly.
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MCPO
Mar 27, 2011 19:15:52 GMT -6
Post by NOTTHOR on Mar 27, 2011 19:15:52 GMT -6
Our fam's staying put in Tokyo - they were worried about a panic and hoarding, but shit seems pretty calm. A dude I work with canceled his trip to Hawaii yesterday because he's scared of the radiation from Japan. I told him "Dude, if the radiation is strong enough go a few thousand miles from Japan to Hawaii in an unsafe dose, it's gonna go another few thousand miles in an unsafe dose and come here - it ain't bad so stop being a pussy." Didn't work.
Ma's got a friend from middle school who lived up in Sendai who is missing. She was like 6 months preggers and the husband was at work and is fine, but he can't find his wife and their house is completely gone. Ma's got another friend whose dad owns farmland in Gunma Prefecture and the government has quarantined his crops because they don't want folks to freak about radiation in the food supply, so that dude and all the farmers around him are fucked. Fuck sending money to the Red Cross so they can run it through a giant bureaucracy of highly paid folks, at this point we might as well start sending checks to the Japanese government because it needs to just set up its own fund to start making payments to all these folks because there is no fucking way there is enough insurance money to cover these losses.
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MCPO
Mar 28, 2011 8:05:54 GMT -6
Post by NotMyKid on Mar 28, 2011 8:05:54 GMT -6
Our fam's staying put in Tokyo - they were worried about a panic and hoarding, but shit seems pretty calm. A dude I work with canceled his trip to Hawaii yesterday because he's scared of the radiation from Japan. I told him "Dude, if the radiation is strong enough go a few thousand miles from Japan to Hawaii in an unsafe dose, it's gonna go another few thousand miles in an unsafe dose and come here - it ain't bad so stop being a pussy." Didn't work. Ma's got a friend from middle school who lived up in Sendai who is missing. She was like 6 months preggers and the husband was at work and is fine, but he can't find his wife and their house is completely gone. Ma's got another friend whose dad owns farmland in Gunma Prefecture and the government has quarantined his crops because they don't want folks to freak about radiation in the food supply, so that dude and all the farmers around him are fucked. Fuck sending money to the Red Cross so they can run it through a giant bureaucracy of highly paid folks, at this point we might as well start sending checks to the Japanese government because it needs to just set up its own fund to start making payments to all these folks because there is no fucking way there is enough insurance money to cover these losses.
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MCPO
Mar 28, 2011 9:42:32 GMT -6
Post by thunderhawk on Mar 28, 2011 9:42:32 GMT -6
Our fam's staying put in Tokyo - they were worried about a panic and hoarding, but shit seems pretty calm. A dude I work with canceled his trip to Hawaii yesterday because he's scared of the radiation from Japan. I told him "Dude, if the radiation is strong enough go a few thousand miles from Japan to Hawaii in an unsafe dose, it's gonna go another few thousand miles in an unsafe dose and come here - it ain't bad so stop being a pussy." Didn't work. Ma's got a friend from middle school who lived up in Sendai who is missing. She was like 6 months preggers and the husband was at work and is fine, but he can't find his wife and their house is completely gone. Ma's got another friend whose dad owns farmland in Gunma Prefecture and the government has quarantined his crops because they don't want folks to freak about radiation in the food supply, so that dude and all the farmers around him are fucked. Fuck sending money to the Red Cross so they can run it through a giant bureaucracy of highly paid folks, at this point we might as well start sending checks to the Japanese government because it needs to just set up its own fund to start making payments to all these folks because there is no fucking way there is enough insurance money to cover these losses. Thanks for ruining my day.
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MCPO
Mar 28, 2011 16:04:45 GMT -6
Post by Master Blaster on Mar 28, 2011 16:04:45 GMT -6
that sucks BTR. Hope ma and company get the best possible outcome from a horrible situation. And yeah, Red Cross is the only organization I have a slight amount of faith in. I'll tell you what though, my boys out on CVN 76 are kicking ass, taking names when it comes to helping. Something like 1/2 million tons of aid given out, been on station since it happened and are not leaving anytime soon. Saw pictures on facebook for the ships site of snow on the flight deck. can't imagine how tough life is for those directly impacted.
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MCPO
Mar 31, 2011 11:52:56 GMT -6
Post by thunderhawk on Mar 31, 2011 11:52:56 GMT -6
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