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Post by NOTTHOR on May 11, 2008 11:59:38 GMT -6
I must say that I am shocked that when a country enacts socialist labor laws, they are greeted with massive underemployment. 30% unemployment rate for young people in France? 1,000 Euro/month starting salaries for college educated people? When's Barry's swearing in ceremony? I can't wait to see what his brand of socialism does to our labor markets. Well, Pierre, sorry you only make 1,000 a month, but at least you have "FREE" healthcare. www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/may/11/spain.france?gusrc=rss&feed=networkfront |
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Post by Chuck Storm on May 11, 2008 14:13:20 GMT -6
I must say that I am shocked that when a country enacts socialist labor laws, they are greeted with massive underemployment. 30% unemployment rate for young people in France? 1,000 Euro/month starting salaries for college educated people? When's Barry's swearing in ceremony? I can't wait to see what his brand of socialism does to our labor markets. Well, Pierre, sorry you only make 1,000 a month, but at least you have "FREE" healthcare. www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/may/11/spain.france?gusrc=rss&feed=networkfrontAll of these policies often work well for a certain segment of the population in the short term, but they screw the young by destroying growth and investment. |
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Post by GhostMod 5000 on May 11, 2008 14:26:31 GMT -6
When I graduated college the first time, I made around $1,100 a month working 50 hour weeks at two jobs while living with my parents. That is pretty common for anyone who decides to stick around Iowa.
My woman went unemployed for 4 moths after she graduated, because the only offer she had was horrible. My sister made $0 selling insurance for a summer, then spent another 8 months looking for an engineering job while working as a bank teller. My brother in law with a finace degree had to spend a year as a bank teller before they would allow him to work in securities.
We all do pretty well right now, but it took time to get on our feet.
So I am kind of guessing that this may be more of a function of regional economies than liberal policies.
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Post by Chuck Storm on May 11, 2008 16:00:45 GMT -6
When I graduated college the first time, I made around $1,100 a month working 50 hour weeks at two jobs while living with my parents. That is pretty common for anyone who decides to stick around Iowa. My woman went unemployed for 4 moths after she graduated, because the only offer she had was horrible. My sister made $0 selling insurance for a summer, then spent another 8 months looking for an engineering job while working as a bank teller. My brother in law with a finace degree had to spend a year as a bank teller before they would allow him to work in securities. We all do pretty well right now, but it took time to get on our feet. So I am kind of guessing that this may be more of a function of regional economies than liberal policies. Maybe. I generally hate trying to draw long-term conclusions based on anecdotal evidence. That being said, it doesn't take a huge leap of faith to understand why a set of laws that makes it very difficult to fire workers would increase costs to business/reduce productivity and help the people who have the jobs at the expense of those who don't. It's not much different than rent control in my mind. Rent control unquestionably helps the people who live in the apartments that become rent controlled. It has also, in every city I know of where it has been implemented, reduced supply and made it nearly impossible for people who don't already have apartments to find rent controlled units. Decreasing returns/increasing risks is going to affect inflows of capital. I don't think there's anything that can be done about that. |
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Post by NOTTHOR on May 12, 2008 7:37:29 GMT -6
$1100 a month ghost? Forreals? I made almost that much working 20-25 hours a week in college peddling Chinese food. I realized about a week into my senior year that there were no jobs in Iowa that I wanted, so I made a plan to move to NYC, which I did 3 or 4 days after I graduated. It took me one week to get a decent job, because many people in NYC are mouthbreathers and people making hiring decisions liked my midwestern demeanor, lack of guidified accent and that trusted midwestern work ethic.
And the people in the story were in Rome, Paris and Madrid. Those are 3 of the top 10 cities in Europe. It ain't some sort of weak regional economy that's leading people in their early 30's to make 1100 Euros a month, it's the damn regulations accross the continent that make everyone a de facto union employee that can't be terminated that causes employers to be very gun shy about taking on any new workers.
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Post by GhostMod 5000 on May 12, 2008 8:37:40 GMT -6
Ralphie, your premise doesn't quite make sense, because even if those people got fired and replaced by the young workers, then the old incompetent workers are unemployeed.
Also, if you were working 80 hours a week pouring MSG on noodles and making 1,100 a month, you would be making somewhere around $14 per hour net, probably $17-$18 gross. Where the hell did you find a gig like that?
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Post by NOTTHOR on May 12, 2008 9:33:41 GMT -6
Ralphie, your premise doesn't quite make sense, because even if those people got fired and replaced by the young workers, then the old incompetent workers are unemployeed. Also, if you were working 80 hours a week pouring MSG on noodles and making 1,100 a month, you would be making somewhere around $14 per hour net, probably $17-$18 gross. Where the hell did you find a gig like that? 1) Who says they would have to fire older workers to hire younger ones? If a company has to carry a worker and can't fire them without a buyout, companies will be much less willing to hire any new workers, regardless of their age. At will employment gives the company flexibility against a bad hire or a downturn, thus making companies operating under such a system much more likely to hire. But your response underscores an important shortcoming in liberal economic ideology, which is the general assumption that every economic regulation or decision is a zero sum game. That is simply not the case. I think the economy is better when two people are gainfully employed with at will employment than when one person is employed under the regimes that European socialism has created. Like autolykos said, it's a great deal for those people who already have their foot in the door, but it sucks ass for those who are on the outside looking in. 2) I delivered Chinese food. It paid like $6 an hour and then I made another $8-12 an hour in tips, depending on how busy it was. I got the job by going into the restaurant and asking if they needed help. No interview, no application, my buddy who had just quit to move out of town told me about the opening and instead of sitting around ripping bongers thinking about how to take money from the government, I rolled in and got the job. I started during the summer and I worked at Pioneer during the day and at the D-House at night, but then when school started, I quit the job at Pioneer and worked 4 or 5 nights a week and 2 lunch shifts. |
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Post by GhostMod 5000 on May 12, 2008 12:37:42 GMT -6
Pioneer and chinese restaurant? That sucks. One summer, between freshman and sophmore year, I worked at a Kraft Foods plant (Oscar Meyer division) from 6-3 and then worked evenings at K-Mart.
I remember sitting there scrubbing the manager's john and thinking I couldn't sink any lower. Still, in the end, it really seems to help you develop as a man. I sucks that I did it, but I am glad that I did.
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Post by thunderhawk on May 12, 2008 13:07:47 GMT -6
The Euro is kicking the dollar's ass. The Europeans have kick ass transportation systems, better cell phone and internet technology than us, and actual strategies for energy independence. They are full speed ahead in scientific endeavors. Yes, they are far from perfect. But for a citizen of this nation, at this time, to bash Europe? That's high fucking comedy.
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Post by bucketochicken on May 12, 2008 13:15:22 GMT -6
The Euro is kicking the dollar's ass. The Europeans have kick ass transportation systems, better cell phone and internet technology than us, and actual strategies for energy independence. They are full speed ahead in scientific endeavors. Yes, they are far from perfect. But for a citizen of this nation, at this time, to bash Europe? That's high fucking comedy. Post of the Year. |
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Post by Chuck Storm on May 12, 2008 13:35:26 GMT -6
The Euro is kicking the dollar's ass. The Europeans have kick ass transportation systems, better cell phone and internet technology than us, and actual strategies for energy independence. They are full speed ahead in scientific endeavors. Yes, they are far from perfect. But for a citizen of this nation, at this time, to bash Europe? That's high fucking comedy. So you'd trade a couple subway trains, a different cell phone system and a better internet system for 9% unemployment? And yeah, they have an energy independence strategy. It's called "let's tax the sh** out of gas so nobody can afford to drive." |
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Post by thunderhawk on May 12, 2008 14:08:02 GMT -6
The Euro is kicking the dollar's ass. The Europeans have kick ass transportation systems, better cell phone and internet technology than us, and actual strategies for energy independence. They are full speed ahead in scientific endeavors. Yes, they are far from perfect. But for a citizen of this nation, at this time, to bash Europe? That's high fucking comedy. So you'd trade a couple subway trains, a different cell phone system and a better internet system for 9% unemployment? And yeah, they have an energy independence strategy. It's called "let's tax the sh** out of gas so nobody can afford to drive." I doubt you've even been there. I have. They seem pretty content over there. And they are flocking to America to spend their valuable currency, if you hadn't noticed. They are drinking our milkshake, drinking it up...and pissant neocons like yourself and your fairytale-fuck-a-troll ideology are the reason why. Europe isn't kicking our ass because they are inherently superior or instinctually enlightened. They are kicking our ass where it matters because this nation is dumbing down its citizenry and shipping off its ingenuity while ignoring its own intellectual and physical infrastructure so motherfucking cronies can get paid. You fucking people are being PWN3D by reality, and you still persist in your preening. So I need a question answered: Are you ignorant or just stupid? Because you're fucking over the greatest nation on earth, on purpose, and make no mistake, you'll be held accountable for it, you anti-patriots. Get back to me when you find a leg to stand on. Until that time, kindly shut the fuck up. |
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Post by Chuck Storm on May 12, 2008 15:48:30 GMT -6
So you'd trade a couple subway trains, a different cell phone system and a better internet system for 9% unemployment? And yeah, they have an energy independence strategy. It's called "let's tax the sh** out of gas so nobody can afford to drive." I doubt you've even been there. I have. They seem pretty content over there. And they are flocking to America to spend their valuable currency, if you hadn't noticed. They are drinking our milkshake, drinking it up...and pissant neocons like yourself and your fairytale-fuck-a-troll ideology are the reason why. Europe isn't kicking our ass because they are inherently superior or instinctually enlightened. They are kicking our ass where it matters because this nation is dumbing down its citizenry and shipping off its ingenuity while ignoring its own intellectual and physical infrastructure so motherfucking cronies can get paid. You fucking people are being PWN3D by reality, and you still persist in your preening. So I need a question answered: Are you ignorant or just stupid? Because you're fucking over the greatest nation on earth, on purpose, and make no mistake, you'll be held accountable for it, you anti-patriots. Get back to me when you find a leg to stand on. Until that time, kindly shut the f**k up. I don't know what you're talking about. I'm not even 30, I graduated from an Ivy League law school and I make gobs of money. Yeah, times are a little tough and it's hard getting by on only $55 a head for lunch everyday, but I'm managing to get by. If I wanted, I could move to London in a second. I'd make marginally more, but I'd spend 3 times as much on housing and 20% more on everything else I bought. No thanks. If Europe kicking our ass means our unemployment is lower and our standard of living is higher, then I like getting my ass kicked. They can keep their cell phone networks and faster internet (my work just fine, thanks). I'll certainly agree that there are areas where America could be improved, but if you're looking to make us more like Europe, the first step would be to reduce/eliminate all of the liberal restrictions on density and development and eliminate all the whining about gentrification (which comes largely from the left, although there's some NIMBY on both sides of the aisle). |
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Post by NOTTHOR on May 12, 2008 16:02:13 GMT -6
**Hits bong**
Man, Europe's cell phones are better than ours, Europe must be awesome.
With the weak dollar, American manufacturing is experiencing a rebirth and it won't be long until the ECB starts cutting interest rates to weaken the Euro and bolster Europe's exports. As for the Europeans coming to America to shop, big deal. The currency swung. They are sick of paying VAT. Europeans buying trinkets in the US seems like a good thing to me. It employs Americans, either those who make the goods, those who sell the goods or both. But the mouthbreathing xenophobic left probably disagrees, the "fur'en'rs are taking our country" is a common refrain of alarmists from all countries who are personally ill equipped to compete in modern commerce.
Look at the bright side guys, when Barry wins the election and raises income taxes to a level that makes Europe's biggest socialists blush in envy, no American individual or business will be able to amass enough capital to buy significant assets either in the US or globally and so we can sell everything to the Chinese, Japanese, and Europeans, and when Barry gets done with his redistribution plans, even the bottom 10% of American society will be able to afford state of the art flat screen TVs manufactured in China to watch during the day while the rest of us are at work. Huey Long's ambitious "Every Man a King" brand of socialism will pale in comparison.
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