Question for BTR

[kshawkesq]

Ok, in all seriousness, here's my question. I am interested in eventually getting a general counsel position. My background is litigation. Some employment defense, some defense of financial institutions. The rest has been products, PI, and Premises. As I work as in house counsel for an insurance co, I have some background in coverage opinion etc.

So the fiance and I are sorting out her job prospects. It may well be that we take a position in IC for her and I trash my career becuase hers pays that much more. So this might be the opportunity to cross train at the school. Perhaps an MBA or something. I feel like I need to get a background in transactional law etc to truely position myself for GC positions. I was looking at the Iowa executive and professional MBA program. It might be an option. Also, I wonder if there would be something to gain by taking a course or two at the law school.

So what are your thoughts???

[NOTTHOR]

I agree that a background in transactional law is a prerequisite for almost all GC jobs. Of course, there are exceptions for companies that are mired in litigation, but for the most part, GCs are corporate/securities guys.

As for an MBA, I don't know about that. I ran into a high school buddy who attended Tippie and he was no job pwned right before graduation. It doesn't seem to me like Tippie is a great investment unless your company is paying for it and you'll have a job lined up when you get out. If you get in-state tuition and a partial scholly, an executive MBA could be helpful for your resume 10 years down the line because in all likelihood, you will be vying for GC positions in smaller companies that could also use an extra "business mind" to analyze deals, etc. (I can't remember where you went to LS, but most GCs of big companies are Harvard or Yale men).

As for courses at the law school, really, the only ones that were worthwhile for my job were corporations (I'm sure you already took this), securities regulation (absolutely necessary to do any high level transactional work), taxation of business enterprises (so you know what the tax wonks are rambling about) and advanced topics in corporate law - mergers and acquisitions - this was the class I guest lectured last year, but the prof got fired - it was the shittiest class I've ever taken in terms of ball punch homework (I read 2 and a half foot high stack of material contracts and wrote a diligence memo summarizing the key terms of each and drafted an asset purchase agreement) but it was most useful class the law school offered.

The most important thing to do would be to build the hell out of your resume with transactional work. I'd recommend trying to get a job in CR with a transactional firm if you move to IC.

And keep building that resume - I have a another buddy from HS who I talked to a few weeks ago who is in LS here in Chi - he focused on his now ex-wife's career and his suffered and then when they got divorced about a year and a half ago, he was pwned.

[kshawkesq]

Feb 20, 2009 9:22:17 GMT -6 NOTTHOR said:

I agree that a background in transactional law is a prerequisite for almost all GC jobs. Of course, there are exceptions for companies that are mired in litigation, but for the most part, GCs are corporate/securities guys.

As for an MBA, I don't know about that. I ran into a high school buddy who attended Tippie and he was no job pwned right before graduation. It doesn't seem to me like Tippie is a great investment unless your company is paying for it and you'll have a job lined up when you get out. If you get in-state tuition and a partial scholly, an executive MBA could be helpful for your resume 10 years down the line because in all likelihood, you will be vying for GC positions in smaller companies that could also use an extra "business mind" to analyze deals, etc. (I can't remember where you went to LS, but most GCs of big companies are Harvard or Yale men).

As for courses at the law school, really, the only ones that were worthwhile for my job were corporations (I'm sure you already took this), securities regulation (absolutely necessary to do any high level transactional work), taxation of business enterprises (so you know what the tax wonks are rambling about) and advanced topics in corporate law - mergers and acquisitions - this was the class I guest lectured last year, but the prof got fired - it was the shittiest class I've ever taken in terms of ball punch homework (I read 2 and a half foot high stack of material contracts and wrote a diligence memo summarizing the key terms of each and drafted an asset purchase agreement) but it was most useful class the law school offered.

The most important thing to do would be to build the hell out of your resume with transactional work. I'd recommend trying to get a job in CR with a transactional firm if you move to IC.

And keep building that resume - I have a another buddy from HS who I talked to a few weeks ago who is in LS here in Chi - he focused on his now ex-wife's career and his suffered and then when they got divorced about a year and a half ago, he was pwned.

Ok, very good points. The executive MBA is $1500 a credit hour, so not too bad. My JD is from Washburn, a private school in KS. I graduated with honors. Based on this, the school advises I get into Tippie without any GRE or other bullshit. The goal is likely to become a GC/or senior attorney for a medium sized co when the future wife moves me out to Orange County. To that end, there would seem to be some benefit to MBA as my duties may span beyond traditional GC work.

I agree that transactional experience is a must, so the question is then how best to cross train. Obviously, I'm taking a pay cut to take a job in CR anyhow, but without any significant background in corporations, securities or real estate, it would seem that I need to get that experience. I don't think a couple CLE's will get the job done. I have e-mailed the law school about attending to take a class or two, but who knows. I am open to suggestions.

[NOTTHOR]

Well, if you're moving to Orange County, short of having at least a few years of corp/securities experience at a Vault 100 firm on your resume, I don't know what you can do to be a GC.

Are you sure the executive MBA is $1500 an hour? That seems like an assload of cash. If it's that much, you'd be much better off doing that Duke or Northwestern internet and once a month meeting MBA, it can't be that much more expensive, but the prestige of Kellogg or Fuqua on your resume would make you significantly more marketable than an Iowa MBA.

I'd look at the CR firms that do transactional work to get some experience. Make them an offer to come on as a first year or something in their corporate group. I think Shuttleworth and Ingersoll was one of the bigger ones in town.

When are you moving to IC? If we continue the Wasteland tailgate tradition and Ron doesn't ban me from his tailgates, I can introduce to a few of my LS buddies who are doing corp. work up in CR. I talked to one of them last weekend and it sounds like his firm is pretty slow right now, though.

Are you opposed to being a head of a litigation group or anything? Maybe if you just stay the course and are highly experienced in lit, an opportunity will present itself. I know some people in house who are fairly senior (biz unit GCs) who have litigation backgrounds and they are able to wing it when it comes to doing deals. It's just like litigation, make sure if you are doing something sophisticated you hire a good outside firm that won't fuck it up.

[kshawkesq]

It's $1,500 per course, so the whole MBA would be 22K or so. I should look into the online options... That is assuming I don't get some credit for JD course work. To clarify, I am not opposed to being a manager of a litigation department, or some other inside position. I'm just trying to sort through possible options.

As for the IC move, it really depends on KC not working for her. I tailgate up there just south of Kinnick regardless. I appreciate the input. Thanks!