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Post by ignatiusreilly on Mar 27, 2008 11:21:15 GMT -6
Personally I'm better off financially. I work for a company that has stayed afloat because of military contracts, even though our commercial business took a beating after 9/11. I make more money and have bought many material items to make me feel better about myself, so I should feel blessed I guess.
But I want to know what you all think of the good ol' USA as a whole. Are "we" (as in The People) better off?
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barber
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Post by barber on Mar 27, 2008 11:23:08 GMT -6
Given that the wheels were in motion for 9/11 by your date, I would say yes, we are much better off.
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Post by Chuck Storm on Mar 27, 2008 11:25:17 GMT -6
Personally I'm better off financially. I work for a company that has stayed afloat because of military contracts, even though our commercial business took a beating after 9/11. I make more money and have bought many material items to make me feel better about myself, so I should feel blessed I guess. But I want to know what you all think of the good ol' USA as a whole. Are "we" (as in The People) better off? How many people do you know that aren't better off? |
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barber
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Post by barber on Mar 27, 2008 11:41:19 GMT -6
Now you did it Autolykos. Now Al Gore will show up with that lady from Iowa who had to pick up cans to get money for her prescriptions. Oh, wait...that turned out to be bs. Well then Hillary will come running while she's ducking live rounds of sniper fire...oh wait, that was bs. Well then, Barry Obama will tell us how he bought a house for $300,000 below asking price while a hotshot developer had to pay full price for the adjacent lot. Oh wait, that would mean Barry and his family are better off too.
That does it. I guess we'll have to keep hearing from really well off Democrats about how tough it is to make ends meet. Where's Jesse Jackson when we need him. He still knows what it's like to be poor.
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Post by Chuck Storm on Mar 27, 2008 11:44:42 GMT -6
Now you did it Autolykos. Now Al Gore will show up with that lady from Iowa who had to pick up cans to get money for her prescriptions. Oh, wait...that turned out to be bs. Well then Hillary will come running while she's ducking live rounds of sniper fire...oh wait, that was bs. Well then, Barry Obama will tell us how he bought a house for $300,000 below asking price while a hotshot developer had to pay full price for the adjacent lot. Oh wait, that would mean Barry and his family are better off too. That does it. I guess we'll have to keep hearing from really well off Democrats about how tough it is to make ends meet. Where's Jesse Jackson when we need him. He still knows what it's like to be poor. Jesse's too busy bilking the people of the great state of Illinois through his state-sponsored liquor distribution monopoly. |
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Post by NOTTHOR on Mar 27, 2008 11:48:43 GMT -6
Thanks for posting this expos. I was going to post a similar poll like this tomorrow. I find it telling that in the other poll on individuals, 100% of respondents have reported individually being better off, but in this poll, only 50% of respondents think the country is better off. I guess that tosses out the theory that the US is the sum of its parts. It must be the sum of its parts minus some X factor.
Maybe our lost goodwill in the Middle East is what that factor is. They loved us on 1/19/01, then on 1/20 hated us and we saw the manifestation of that 9/11/01.
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Post by ignatiusreilly on Mar 27, 2008 12:19:26 GMT -6
I thought it would be an interesting contrast.
Things I think are NOT better about this country and I believe these are directly attributable to the failed presidency of GW Bush:
skyrocketing gas prices
the dollar getting weaker and weaker
never ending war sending us deeper and deeper into debt
outsourcing of jobs, US weak position in global economy.
this list goes on...feel free to add more.
I said in the other poll that I personally was better off. But I think it's important to note that without the failed presidency of GW Bush I like to think that I would be better off.
1. I wouldn't feel like everyone in the world outside these borders hates my guts and what I stand for.
2. I would not be paying 3+ dollars for gas.
3. I wouldn't be arguing with seemingly intelligent people who think Bush is actually doing a good job. And in turn, I wouldn't be baffled all the time.
4. My money would still be worth something outside the US. Hell, inside the US for that matter.
5. I'd feel better about our scientific achievements and my chances of getting that brain transplant when I'm older due to not having the 8-year GW Bush roadblock on stem cell research.
These are just a few of the things in my life that could be better off had Bush not crashed this country (which was doing well on 1/20/01) into the proverbial concrete bridge embunkment.
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Post by socal on Mar 27, 2008 13:55:30 GMT -6
I thought it would be an interesting contrast. Things I think are NOT better about this country and I believe these are directly attributable to the failed presidency of GW Bush: skyrocketing gas prices the dollar getting weaker and weaker never ending war sending us deeper and deeper into debt outsourcing of jobs, US weak position in global economy. this list goes on...feel free to add more. I said in the other poll that I personally was better off. But I think it's important to note that without the failed presidency of GW Bush I like to think that I would be better off. 1. I wouldn't feel like everyone in the world outside these borders hates my guts and what I stand for. 2. I would not be paying 3+ dollars for gas. 3. I wouldn't be arguing with seemingly intelligent people who think Bush is actually doing a good job. And in turn, I wouldn't be baffled all the time. 4. My money would still be worth something outside the US. Hell, inside the US for that matter. 5. I'd feel better about our scientific achievements and my chances of getting that brain transplant when I'm older due to not having the 8-year GW Bush roadblock on stem cell research. These are just a few of the things in my life that could be better off had Bush not crashed this country (which was doing well on 1/20/01) into the proverbial concrete bridge embunkment.  The overall national (global?) feeling of WTF did went on last night while we were in our drunken stupor is nearly over. The fugly chick that: gave us crabs... annoyed/pissed off our friends and other partygoers by turning up the stereo volume until the speakers blew... ate what she wanted of our food - then threw everything else out the window- where it landed on our car... had explosive sharts on the bathroom walls... etc. --- has called a cab and hopes to leave before anyone else awakens - and subsequently kicks her ass. |
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Post by The Bluzmn on Mar 27, 2008 14:35:00 GMT -6
I thought it would be an interesting contrast. Things I think are NOT better about this country and I believe these are directly attributable to the failed presidency of GW Bush: skyrocketing gas prices the dollar getting weaker and weaker never ending war sending us deeper and deeper into debt outsourcing of jobs, US weak position in global economy. this list goes on...feel free to add more. I said in the other poll that I personally was better off. But I think it's important to note that without the failed presidency of GW Bush I like to think that I would be better off. 1. I wouldn't feel like everyone in the world outside these borders hates my guts and what I stand for. 2. I would not be paying 3+ dollars for gas. 3. I wouldn't be arguing with seemingly intelligent people who think Bush is actually doing a good job. And in turn, I wouldn't be baffled all the time. 4. My money would still be worth something outside the US. Hell, inside the US for that matter. 5. I'd feel better about our scientific achievements and my chances of getting that brain transplant when I'm older due to not having the 8-year GW Bush roadblock on stem cell research. These are just a few of the things in my life that could be better off had Bush not crashed this country (which was doing well on 1/20/01) into the proverbial concrete bridge embunkment. Man, I don't know what I can add to that post. Very well-played. |
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Post by GhostMod 5000 on Mar 27, 2008 15:05:30 GMT -6
Well, since I was only 19 years old in 2001, I liek to think I am doing better. For instance, I can now buy alcohol. I had sex since then, and that was pretty sweet. Iowa became a football power after that time. And best of all, I got my shit together, and was accepted into a great college and achieved an astronomical gpa.
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Post by socal on Mar 27, 2008 15:48:02 GMT -6
Well, bince I was only 19 years old in 2001, I liek to think I am doing better. For instance, I can now buy alcohol. I had sex bince then, and that was pretty sweet. Iowa became a football power after that time. And best of all, I got my shit together, and was accepted into a great college and achieved an astronomical gpa. Dude. You Rock!!!  What's it like? |
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Post by NOTTHOR on Mar 27, 2008 16:12:08 GMT -6
I thought it would be an interesting contrast. Things I think are NOT better about this country and I believe these are directly attributable to the failed presidency of GW Bush: skyrocketing gas prices the dollar getting weaker and weaker never ending war sending us deeper and deeper into debt outsourcing of jobs, US weak position in global economy. this list goes on...feel free to add more. I said in the other poll that I personally was better off. But I think it's important to note that without the failed presidency of GW Bush I like to think that I would be better off. 1. I wouldn't feel like everyone in the world outside these borders hates my guts and what I stand for. 2. I would not be paying 3+ dollars for gas. 3. I wouldn't be arguing with seemingly intelligent people who think Bush is actually doing a good job. And in turn, I wouldn't be baffled all the time. 4. My money would still be worth something outside the US. Hell, inside the US for that matter. 5. I'd feel better about our scientific achievements and my chances of getting that brain transplant when I'm older due to not having the 8-year GW Bush roadblock on stem cell research. These are just a few of the things in my life that could be better off had Bush not crashed this country (which was doing well on 1/20/01) into the proverbial concrete bridge embunkment. The amount of shit the pres gets blamed for is astonishing. The war is a clusterfuck and is a player in the weak dollar. The other reason for the weak dollar is the Fed trying to bail out homeowners who fucked themselves over. The Fed is supposed to be apolitical so there is nothing W can do there. The weak dollar is allegedly starting a new wave of strength in American manufacturing and might actually ween us off of crap from China, at least at the margin. Gas prices are still cheap in real terms. Yeah, I remember when gas was under $1 a gallon, but crude was almost free back then. When I think of the amount of capital and labor necessry to get gas from the ground to a car, $3 a gallon still seems pretty god damn cheap, especially with the easy to get oil drying up. But then again, it cost way over $50 to fill up my in-law's little Japanese car in Tokyo before oil prices skyrocketed, so I don't think $3 a gallon gas is that bad. Plus, the shock in gas prices is a market move that has to happen sometime to incentivize people to come up with the next big thing and end the oil addiction. Aren't liberals against buring oil? Outsourcing started a long time ago. With the advent of the information superhighway and all the fiberoptics connecting the world, menial white collar-ish jobs are bound to leave. There is no practicable control that the government can put into place to stop it. Yeah, you can screw with the tax code, yada yada yada, but between me and you, the average American doesn't win there, the only winner there is the tax lawyer on the floor below me who gets a new clusterfuck tax law to bill a client for reviewing, which then increases the marginal cost of products that you want to buy, which pisses you off even more. Trust me, not everyone outside of the US hates your guts and what you stand for any more than they ever did. There are billions of people who would trade places with you in one second flat if given the chance. Are you upset because the French don't like you and CNN keeps reporting about it? I got news for you bud, they never liked you, they are assholes. Finally, asking for a brain transplant is putting the cart before the horse. They have yet to perfect the cloning of my brain so that you will have a worthy replacement. |
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Post by ignatiusreilly on Mar 28, 2008 15:17:43 GMT -6
Ralph,
I can appreciate your response and your ability to see the glass as half-full or make lemonade when you get 8 years of lemons. But I believe GW Bush was never fit to be the president and he deserves the blame for this. He presided over our country during the worst 8 years since I've been alive. I rate him even below his old man who was a 1 term president for a reason.
Bush takes the blame for this because he's the president. But I don't believe he orchestrated all this by himself. He is basically the puppet for a group of GOP decision makers. Either way these are some of the biggest blunders I've seen in my life and they have left our country extremely vulnerable while other nations (and terrorist orgs) have become stronger in the same period.
If John McCain doesn't start talking "change" real soon, then there is no way I'm voting for a Republican in November. More of the same would just be more of the same. Even you might get sick of it eventually, Ralph. I know I did years ago.
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Post by lpcalihawk on Mar 28, 2008 15:45:01 GMT -6
Ralph, I can appreciate your response and your ability to see the glass as half-full or make lemonade when you get 8 years of lemons. But I believe GW Bush was never fit to be the president and he deserves the blame for this. He presided over our country during the worst 8 years bince I've been alive. I rate him even below his old man who was a 1 term president for a reason. Bush takes the blame for this because he's the president. But I don't believe he orchestrated all this by himself. He is basically the puppet for a group of GOP decision makers. Either way these are some of the biggest blunders I've seen in my life and they have left our country extremely vulnerable while other nations (and terrorist orgs) have become stronger in the same period. If John McCain doesn't start talking "change" real soon, then there is no way I'm voting for a Republican in November. More of the same would just be more of the same. Even you might get sick of it eventually, Ralph. I know I did years ago. The same people who make excuses for Dubya now are the same ones who blamed Bill Clinton for anything that went wrong. Pure partisanship. The day our country evolves past this, the day we will start accomplishing things that are worth a shit. |
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Post by socal on Mar 28, 2008 16:03:13 GMT -6
I still remember a Katrina thread we had in the old place where there were rants on Bush to do something presidential because he hadn't for most of a week... After he gave his speech (where he promised actions & showed empathy)...  ... I gave him credit for doing something presidential... It turned out he had generators flown in so he could get the lighting just so for his speech. Afterwards they shut off the generators & the citizens went back to complete darkness. I forget the rest, but how did his promises work out??? |
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Post by NOTTHOR on Mar 28, 2008 20:24:36 GMT -6
Ralph, I can appreciate your response and your ability to see the glass as half-full or make lemonade when you get 8 years of lemons. But I believe GW Bush was never fit to be the president and he deserves the blame for this. He presided over our country during the worst 8 years bince I've been alive. I rate him even below his old man who was a 1 term president for a reason. Bush takes the blame for this because he's the president. But I don't believe he orchestrated all this by himself. He is basically the puppet for a group of GOP decision makers. Either way these are some of the biggest blunders I've seen in my life and they have left our country extremely vulnerable while other nations (and terrorist orgs) have become stronger in the same period. If John McCain doesn't start talking "change" real soon, then there is no way I'm voting for a Republican in November. More of the same would just be more of the same. Even you might get sick of it eventually, Ralph. I know I did years ago. The same people who make excuses for Dubya now are the same ones who blamed Bill Clinton for anything that went wrong. Pure partisanship. The day our country evolves past this, the day we will start accomplishing things that are worth a shit. Hey guys, W fucked up and started a stupid war, with the support of the majority of the country and the Congress. If you listen to the liberals long enough, you'll realize that W was responsible for every single thing wrong with this country and look out the window and see all the Hoovervilles everywhere and know that W caused those, too. I don't want to sound like a W apologist, I'm just saying the amount of shit the guy gets blamed for is astonishing. Hell, socal thinks he is in charge of generator logistics. I hope to shit the president is focusing on bigger shit than that. Clinton was a fine president. Everything fell into place while he was in power. There are those who will say that he is partly responsible for 9/11, as the seeds for the attack were planted under his watch. I would tend to both agree and disagree with them. There are people out there who think Clinton is a shitbag for getting a BJ. Whatevs, I don't care what the hell he did in his own time. Things were good when Clinton was in office, the economy was humming along with the spread of the internets. But the strong economy had little to do with Clintonomics. Fast forward a few years, we hit a bottom on the biz cycle, had a terrorist attack and the economy hit the shitter, that had very little to do with Bushonomics. Things turned around as they generally do in the business cycle but the squeeze on American manufacturing that has been going on for the past 30 or 40 continued and that was W's fault. I wouldn't worry about more of the same. When's the last time you looked hard at the choices for president and thought to yourself that the best and brightest people in the country were up there running? For me, it has been never. So W was a little farther from the best and the brightest than some of the others, big deal. It's not his fault Rove convinced religious conservatives that W was God's annointed emperor and they bought, it just kind of happened. Watch Jesus Camp sometime and you'll see why I should be in charge of deciding who gets to vote. I mean, in the grand scheme of things, W is prolly only 5 or 10 IQ points lower than Ken O'Kweefe, but unlike Kirk Ferentz, Congress and the court system exert some level of checks and balances over W. The problem with the system is that parties have both gone so far from the mainstream that most people can't identify with the shit that either one of them spews. Frankly, I want lower taxes, limited regulation of business, more freedom and less government interference except in situations of dire need or clear market failure. I don't want massive wealth redistribution programs and to foster the welfare/entitlement state that the Dems advocate. At the same time, I don't want the draconian federal regulation of private issues like gay marriage or abortion that those who have jacked the Repubs advocate. I want someone who is a moderate. As much as I despise the populist anti-free trade high tax message of the Dems, I hate the family values government owns your family message of the now fiscally liberal socially conservative Repubs even more, but unfortunately for the Dems and the liberal elite, I will vote with my pocket book looking at short term tax policy. None of these candidates right now stands for true change. The Dems are still courting the hard left and the Repubs are working hard to court the moderates, but when push comes to shove, as much as I respect him for being a war hero, I don't know that I want a guy who spent years in a tiger cage having his finger on the button. |
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Post by socal on Mar 28, 2008 21:17:11 GMT -6
Dude. His recommendation after 9/11 & the dreary economic outlook was "Go shopping, take the kids to Disneyworld"
IMO, A President is supposed to symbolize what they want their country to be. They are the national spokesperson - both internally & internationally.
Some people were drawn in with W's Connecticut born drawl and "folksy" manner. Thinking it was endearing and likely a put-on, he was installed in the White House...
...where he proceeded to (sometimes literally) fall on his face.
That's where I see Obama setting himself apart from anybody else. His ability to disarm opponents by actually listening to what they're saying is so diametrically opposite of the current situation that it's almost scary.
Even if it were just "Speech" and no substance, the ability of Obama to convey a message - good or bad - to the people as if they are actual adults with a functional brain, is monumental.
Think about this... Do you think Obama would ever utter this sentence:
(I tried narrowing it down to just one sentence, but found myself unable. There are sooooo many countless idiotic sentences that have passed that SOB's lips I couldn't decide on one. So pick your favorite.)
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Post by ignatiusreilly on Mar 28, 2008 22:03:14 GMT -6
Ralph - I agree with just about everything you said in that last post. Summed up my thoughts about the two parties very well.
SoCal - I agree with you too. It's time we had someone with brains to go with his charisma. It makes a bigger difference than most people think. Like you said, a big part of the president's job is to be the national spokesperson. Someone who can convey that America is a strong capable leader in the world, not a doofus that fumbles over words and doesn't think things through before acting.
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Post by NOTTHOR on Mar 29, 2008 8:11:54 GMT -6
socal - I wasn't stateside in the immediate wake of 9/11 and I didn't have my dish, so my only access to the English speaking world was a 16 page daily newspaper called the Japan Times and the internets. From everything I saw, W's approval ratings in the wake of 9/11 were in excess of 90%, but I have a feeling that even Tickle Me Elmo could have polled at 93%. With respect to any specific advice that W gave or didn't give, I understand that people were absolutely freaking out because of the anthrax scare and the terrorist attacks and that he actually did somewhat soothe the populace with his folksy manner. As absolutely stupid as it sounds on its face, his advice on shopping or going to Disneyland was probably right, the US economy is based on consumption (on credit), and he was just trying to reassure people that it is okay to consume and that cowering in your basement with your gas mask in hand was not the way to return the country to operations in the ordinary course of business.
W/r/t Barry, me and autolykos work with a dude who went HLS with him. Said dude is a moderate like myself and has endorsed Barry and claims Barry is a "stand up guy." As big of a festering toilet of liberalism as Harvard Law School is, it ain't as bad as Yale and it's graduates are prolly amongst the most intelligent people you'll ever meet, without the extreme oozing liberal douchiness that Yale alums exude. Having gone to law school myself, I strongly believe that a legal education should be a prerequisite to the highest positions in government, like president and senator, as at least a working knowledge of principles of constitutional law and the various and sundry federal regulatory regimes is, at least in my opinion, necessary to make informed decisions when reviewing bills that come across one's desk. Granted, that presupposes that every lawmaker will actually read and understand the subject matter of every bill, which I guess, given the voluminous quantity of paper our lawmakers churn, is a pretty iffy presumption.
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