|
Post by roxxstar on Mar 13, 2009 8:34:04 GMT -6
So, yeah, I watched Sicko last night. It was a pretty damn good documentary. I'd highly recommend it to anyone. I already knew that the US health care system was a joke. I already knew that I was a cynical bastard that has major problems with the way the US runs its shit. But, after watching this documentary, I'm really just embarrassed to live in this country. The government could give two fuck shits less about the American people, or they would put a stop to this shit. The system is fundamentally flawed. Do you know why? Because it revolves completely around money. The health care industry is not out to help people. They are out to provide the least amount of care possible and maximize profits. That documentary seriously made me angry. I feel like starting a revolution.
|
|
|
Post by Saggitariutt Jefferspin (ith) on Mar 13, 2009 8:37:02 GMT -6
EDIT: I misread your post. I thought you wrote YOU didn't give two shits about the American people.
|
|
|
Post by 101 on Mar 13, 2009 8:45:28 GMT -6
Of course. The healthcare system is the US is a business. It's completely about the money, just like every other business that exists today.
There is nothing, and I repeat, nothing that is designed because it helps people. Everything that every business creates, while it may provide benefit for people, all revolves around making money. Plain and simple.
|
|
|
Post by Gumbyhawk on Mar 13, 2009 8:48:03 GMT -6
So, yeah, I watched Sicko last night. It was a pretty damn good documentary. I'd highly recommend it to anyone. I already knew that the US health care system was a joke. I already knew that I was a cynical bastard that has major problems with the way the US runs its shit. But, after watching this documentary, I'm really just embarrassed to live in this country. The government could give two f**k shits less about the American people, or they would put a stop to this shit. The system is fundamentally flawed. Do you know why? Because it revolves completely around money. The health care industry is not out to help people. They are out to provide the least amount of care possible and maximize profits. That documentary seriously made me angry. I feel like starting a revolution. Well said. And the sicker you are, the less they care. Because if you are dying, that means that they will no longer be able to squeeze any more cash out of you. The insurance companies are worse. You had better hope to hell that you never get a major disease or that your kids are born with a life-long disorder. Trying to explain to the insurance company that something is "medically necessary" and prescribed by the physician is like talking to the wall. I won't even bother to get started ranting on the drug companies. Shit, that would be a long rant!
|
|
|
Post by HawksStock on Mar 13, 2009 8:52:43 GMT -6
I won't even bother to get started ranting on the drug companies. Shit, that would be a long rant! It is so wrong that we are forced to pay for the research and development for the world. Because it is the systematic raping of US citizens for the benefit of the rest of the world, I see it as an international affair. Thus I would support legislation, on a federal level, that would make it illegal to set drug prices any higher than a world wide average.
|
|
|
Post by lpcalihawk on Mar 13, 2009 8:58:51 GMT -6
If I remember the documentary correctly, I thought it did a pretty good job of explaining the history of how our healthcare system got to this point. It was during the Nixon administration that the privatization of health care really began. And as is the norm in politics......Nixon was in bed with the founder of Kaiser Permanente......so Nixon's policies allowed health care privatization to flourish.
Look, we are never going to turn the clock back on having the family doctor drive out to your house on Sunday morning because the kids are sick.......however; the point of the documentary is right on in terms of pointing out just another example of an industry that puts profits before people. And of all industries to do this, health care is the one where it is the most nauseating because loved ones end up dead.
Is health care a moral issue? It is for everyone but the Christian Conservatives.....how ironic is that? As long as we continue to think of a person's health as dollar signs, people will continue to die from causes that are preventable and within our control.
All in all, Sicko was a great documentary that was cheered by GOPers and Democrats alike. The only people that couldn't stand this movie was the Iafan crowd who hates Michael Moore because he disproves everything they stand for.
|
|
|
Post by mattahawk on Mar 13, 2009 9:00:57 GMT -6
So, yeah, I watched Sicko last night. It was a pretty damn good documentary. I'd highly recommend it to anyone. I already knew that the US health care system was a joke. I already knew that I was a cynical bastard that has major problems with the way the US runs its shit. But, after watching this documentary, I'm really just embarrassed to live in this country. The government could give two f**k shits less about the American people, or they would put a stop to this shit. The system is fundamentally flawed. Do you know why? Because it revolves completely around money. The health care industry is not out to help people. They are out to provide the least amount of care possible and maximize profits. That documentary seriously made me angry. I feel like starting a revolution. Well said. And the sicker you are, the less they care. Because if you are dying, that means that they will no longer be able to squeeze any more cash out of you. The insurance companies are worse. You had better hope to hell that you never get a major disease or that your kids are born with a life-long disorder. Trying to explain to the insurance company that something is "medically necessary" and prescribed by the physician is like talking to the wall. I won't even bother to get started ranting on the drug companies. Shit, that would be a long rant! I could see your "long rant" and raise you about a dozen pissed off phone calls on the drug companies, insurance companies and the hospitals.
|
|
|
Post by roxxstar on Mar 13, 2009 9:23:27 GMT -6
Of course. The health care system is the US is a business. It's completely about the money, just like every other business that exists today. There is nothing, and I repeat, nothing that is designed because it helps people. Everything that every business creates, while it may provide benefit for people, all revolves around making money. Plain and simple. Just saying health care is a business, plain and simple, doesn't make it right. "There is nothing, and I repeat, nothing that is designed because it helps people." Call me naive, but I thought part of the government's job description was to provide exactly these type of services (police, fire dept., postal service, etc.). Not to mention programs like welfare, unemployment, etc., that are created to help people in times of need. It just makes me sad that a country as wealthy and, supposedly, great as America is would leave it's own population in the dark when it comes to something as basic as health care. Some of the stories on that documentary literally broke my heart. Like the one about the little girl who died because she was going in to seizures and they took her to a hospital, but they wouldn't help her until they got authorization from the mother's HMO. So, they called Kaiser Permamente and was told that they would have to transfer her to another hospital that was "in network". Meanwhile, she died on the way. We are talking about an 8 year old girl. And the mother even had insurance. It truly makes me sick. I want to physically hurt someone (who is responsible for shit like this) it pisses me off so much. On a side note, I thought it was pretty ironic when he talked about the life expectancy of Americans versus countries that have “socialized” medicine. One thing I always here is how much better healthcare Americans have because they attract the top doctors with the high salaries and what not. Americans live, on average, 3 years less then Canadians and Cubans (countries that provide free universal healthcare).
|
|
|
Post by thunderhawk on Mar 13, 2009 9:48:07 GMT -6
Health care is different from other industries because if you don't have your health, you ain't got shit. Or you're dead or dying. It's one of those "prerequisite" things.
Was "Sicko" biased? Yes. It made Cuba look better than it is. It didn't address the fact that American medicine, if you can get it, is about the best there is.
But the central premise is valid: "For-profit" health care is deadly. Literally. Back in the day, pre-Nixon and his letting the HMO genie out of the bottle, "for profit" health care was considered unethical and taboo. I've studied the American health care system pretty extensively academically and professionally, and you can rest assured that the shit Moore dug up regarding the insurance companies and HMOs is only the tip of the iceberg.
Ironically, the United States finds itself in the enviable position of being able to cherry-pick the best aspects of other countries' systems while learning from their mistakes. The insurance lobby will fight tooth and nail to prevent their having to actually pay for procedures for sick people, but truly, they can fuck off. They are parasites on the system to the extent that they obtain profit by denying needed care. The doctors, nurses, hospitals and other health providers should get paid well, the patients should get treated, and patients and doctors should make medical decisions. Those are the parameters under which a decent system must operate. If the CEO of Cigna loses his 20 million dollar bonus, well, fuck him. He's got blood on his hands already.
|
|
|
Post by 101 on Mar 13, 2009 10:04:07 GMT -6
I didn't say that I agree with that statement, but I believe it to be very true. Sad, yet true. Of course. The health care system is the US is a business. It's completely about the money, just like every other business that exists today. There is nothing, and I repeat, nothing that is designed because it helps people. Everything that every business creates, while it may provide benefit for people, all revolves around making money. Plain and simple. Just saying health care is a business, plain and simple, doesn't make it right. "There is nothing, and I repeat, nothing that is designed because it helps people." Call me naive, but I thought part of the government's job description was to provide exactly these type of services (police, fire dept., postal service, etc.). Not to mention programs like welfare, unemployment, etc., that are created to help people in times of need. It just makes me sad that a country as wealthy and, supposedly, great as America is would leave it's own population in the dark when it comes to something as basic as health care. Some of the stories on that documentary literally broke my heart. Like the one about the little girl who died because she was going in to seizures and they took her to a hospital, but they wouldn't help her until they got authorization from the mother's HMO. So, they called Kaiser Permamente and was told that they would have to transfer her to another hospital that was "in network". Meanwhile, she died on the way. We are talking about an 8 year old girl. And the mother even had insurance. It truly makes me sick. I want to physically hurt someone (who is responsible for shit like this) it pisses me off so much. On a side note, I thought it was pretty ironic when he talked about the life expectancy of Americans versus countries that have “socialized” medicine. One thing I always here is how much better healthcare Americans have because they attract the top doctors with the high salaries and what not. Americans live, on average, 3 years less then Canadians and Cubans (countries that provide free universal healthcare).
|
|
|
Post by socal on Mar 13, 2009 10:12:00 GMT -6
This topic is a worry I have about my impending layoff.
My kids will be fine (covered by an Illinois State plan) --- but the wife & I will be uncovered.
I don't want to waste what savings we may have on COBRA (even the 35% stimulus cost is astronomical) --- and I'm quickly approaching the beginnings of heart attack / colonoscopy age.
The good thing is that I've been stockpiling drugs for a while, so I won't have to shell out OTC prices for my asthma meds.
|
|
|
Post by thunderhawk on Mar 13, 2009 10:43:40 GMT -6
This topic is a worry I have about my impending layoff. My kids will be fine (covered by an Illinois State plan) --- but the wife & I will be uncovered. I don't want to waste what savings we may have on COBRA (even the 35% stimulus cost is astronomical) --- and I'm quickly approaching the beginnings of heart attack / colonoscopy age. The good thing is that I've been stockpiling drugs for a while, so I won't have to shell out OTC prices for my asthma meds. Watch out! The uninsured get charged at least twice as much as the insured. I've got a bill right in front of me for a synagis shot...the price negotiated by the insurer is $2900...retail is $6200. They will fuck you if they can.
|
|
|
Post by rollinspliff on Mar 13, 2009 11:37:45 GMT -6
This is my beef with Michael Moore. That motherfucker has all the time and money to bitch about everything that's flawed or wrong in the world mostly the U.S. but that's where it ends with the fat piece of shit. Why cant this fat fuck spend more time researching how to fix shit instead of bitching like the little bitch he is. Fuck you Michael Moore, Fuck you!
|
|
|
Post by roxxstar on Mar 13, 2009 12:11:09 GMT -6
This is my beef with Michael Moore. That m*th*rf**k*r has all the time and money to bitch about everything that's flawed or wrong in the world mostly the U.S. but that's where it ends with the fat piece of shit. Why cant this fat f**k spend more time researching how to fix shit instead of bitching like the little bitch he is. f**k you Michael Moore, f**k you! The amount of money that Michael Moore put into this documentary is a drop in the bucket compared to the money that the health care industry lobbies congress with. Throwing that small amount of money at the problem will do nothing. In order to fix the problem, you have to expose it first. Make people aware of it and get them pissed off. Then the pissed off populace buy guns and start a mother fucking revolution. BTW, Michael Moore haters are always saying the same thing. All they say is that he is fat and bitches too much. Who gives a fuck how fat the man is. And you don't have to have a solution in order to bitch about something. I don't know how to fix my re-occuring herpe outbreaks, but I can still bitch about it.
|
|
|
Post by twinegarden on Mar 13, 2009 12:53:19 GMT -6
Micheal Moore is a douche though, it's pretty hard to deny that even if some of what he says has some traction. He loves himself too much for alot of people to like him.
Kind of reminds me when he was supporting Howard Dean and yelling in the camera "THATS A DEBATE I WOULD LOVE TO SEE!!!" screaming into the camera, loving the spotlight. Ever notice how his fat ugly mug is plastured over every thing he's ever produced and he is on camera for way more of his movies than he needs to be. While he does bring some important issues to light, I can't help but think he is a fat nerdy know it all who would probably be depressed were it not for getting boners by calling out the crooks while basking in the limelight.
|
|
|
Post by lpcalihawk on Mar 13, 2009 12:57:52 GMT -6
Micheal Moore is a douche though, it's pretty hard to deny that even if some of what he says has some traction. He loves himself too much for alot of people to like him. Kind of reminds me when he was supporting Howard Dean and yelling in the camera "THATS A DEBATE I WOULD LOVE TO SEE!!!" screaming into the camera, loving the spotlight. Ever notice how his fat ugly mug is plastured over every thing he's ever produced and he is on camera for way more of his movies than he needs to be. While he does bring some important issues to light, I can't help but think he is a fat nerdy know it all who would probably be depressed were it not for getting boners by calling out the crooks while basking in the limelight. You can dislike the messenger, but it is the message that is important.
|
|
|
Post by socal on Mar 13, 2009 12:59:40 GMT -6
This is my beef with Michael Moore. That m*th*rf**k*r has all the time and money to bitch about everything that's flawed or wrong in the world mostly the U.S. but that's where it ends with the fat piece of shit. Why cant this fat f**k spend more time researching how to fix shit instead of bitching like the little bitch he is. f**k you Michael Moore, f**k you! Nope. I'm pretty sure Michael Moore isn't a Republican.
|
|
|
Post by roxxstar on Mar 13, 2009 13:06:30 GMT -6
Micheal Moore is a douche though, it's pretty hard to deny that even if some of what he says has some traction. He loves himself too much for alot of people to like him. Kind of reminds me when he was supporting Howard Dean and yelling in the camera "THATS A DEBATE I WOULD LOVE TO SEE!!!" screaming into the camera, loving the spotlight. Ever notice how his fat ugly mug is plastured over every thing he's ever produced and he is on camera for way more of his movies than he needs to be. While he does bring some important issues to light, I can't help but think he is a fat nerdy know it all who would probably be depressed were it not for getting boners by calling out the crooks while basking in the limelight. Do you know Michael at all? Or do you just get this impression from watching his films? I would say there is some borderline jealously in your post.
|
|
|
Post by socal on Mar 13, 2009 13:14:24 GMT -6
BTW, Michael Moore haters are always saying the same thing. All they say is that he is fat and bitches too much. Who gives a f**k how fat the man is. And you don't have to have a solution in order to bitch about something. I don't know how to fix my re-occuring herpe outbreaks, but I can still bitch about it. If I was a GOP'er nowadays, I wouldn't be bringing out the "loudmouth fat pieces of shit" meme.
|
|
|
Post by socal on Mar 13, 2009 13:16:30 GMT -6
Do you know Michael at all? Or do you just get this impression from watching his films? I would say there is some borderline jealously in your post. It all goes back to the Fahrenheit 9/11 sturmtrupping...
|
|
|
Post by thunderhawk on Mar 13, 2009 13:30:50 GMT -6
BTW, Michael Moore haters are always saying the same thing. All they say is that he is fat and bitches too much. Who gives a f**k how fat the man is. And you don't have to have a solution in order to bitch about something. I don't know how to fix my re-occuring herpe outbreaks, but I can still bitch about it. If I was a GOP'er nowadays, I wouldn't be bringing out the "loudmouth fat pieces of shit" meme. Oh snap. PWN3D. Here's the bottom line with things like disease and terrorism: Neither gives a fuckwad about your ideology, they'll kill your ass just the same. The conclusion that follows from that truth is very important: These kinds of nonideological random killers require nonideological effective solutions. Because if you get tied down in ideology, then you're fucking dead, and they win.
|
|
|
Post by twinegarden on Mar 13, 2009 13:53:45 GMT -6
Micheal Moore is a douche though, it's pretty hard to deny that even if some of what he says has some traction. He loves himself too much for alot of people to like him. Kind of reminds me when he was supporting Howard Dean and yelling in the camera "THATS A DEBATE I WOULD LOVE TO SEE!!!" screaming into the camera, loving the spotlight. Ever notice how his fat ugly mug is plastured over every thing he's ever produced and he is on camera for way more of his movies than he needs to be. While he does bring some important issues to light, I can't help but think he is a fat nerdy know it all who would probably be depressed were it not for getting boners by calling out the crooks while basking in the limelight. Do you know Michael at all? Or do you just get this impression from watching his films? I would say there is some borderline jealously in your post. Jealous of what? Like I said he brings up a lot of good points, the guy just irritates me when I see him. Not sure where you are getting jealousy from.
|
|
herkyp
Prostate Massager
Posts: 134
|
Post by herkyp on Mar 13, 2009 14:32:14 GMT -6
Once again I will probably get killed, but here it goes. I understand that health care is very expensive, however it’s one of those things I’m willing to pay for. If there is going to be an industry that exploits me, let it be health care. I want new treatments. I want new cures. With that being said do I think it’s fair that we pay a higher rate than the rest of the world, no.
Socal, I do feel for you. I was without insurance for a brief period and ended up having to have surgery. $17,000.
|
|
|
Post by twinegarden on Mar 13, 2009 14:33:53 GMT -6
At least stem cell research has been given the green light.
|
|
|
Post by HawksStock on Mar 13, 2009 14:39:25 GMT -6
BTW, Michael Moore haters are always saying the same thing. All they say is that he is fat and bitches too much. Who gives a f**k how fat the man is. And you don't have to have a solution in order to bitch about something. I don't know how to fix my re-occuring herpe outbreaks, but I can still bitch about it. If I was a GOP'er nowadays, I wouldn't be bringing out the "loudmouth fat pieces of shit" meme. Bringing up a picture of an unconstitutional deuch isn't pwning anyone.
|
|