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Post by Iowafan1 on Apr 30, 2008 10:50:31 GMT -6
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Post by MoHawk on Apr 30, 2008 11:53:10 GMT -6
Interesting piece Iowafan. Thanks for the link. I myself have never really taken a side in this debate as I'm not a scientist and don't think something like this should be a political issue.
Sadly, it is.
I've not seen Gore's movie, and I don't really have a desire to. I'd say I'm most willing to listen to those who dissent as thoughtful dissention in the face of a widespread movement usually has some very salient points.
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Post by ignatiusreilly on Apr 30, 2008 13:47:28 GMT -6
Yes. Sadly, the destruction of our planet has become a political issue. Which means doing something about it will take 10 times as long because politicians and people on the wrong side of the issue will bicker about it forever.
Same thing holding up stem cell research.
People on the wrong side of the issue are always holding things up. Eventually after years of stupidity, they will come to accept that they were on the wrong side and society will start to advance.
Did you know that conservative people (especially extreme types like iowafan1) used to be against researching organ transplants because it isn't what God would want (as if they have the slightest f*cking clue) and they did their damndest to hold up advancements in organ transplanting. Now, of course they've abandoned that absolutely incorrect position and organ transplants are common and save many thousands of lives every year. What if they weren't so damn ignorant from the get go? How many more lives would have been saved? How much farther would society be in this scientific area?
It's the same thing with global warming or 'climate change' (the word they seem to now be okay with giving it being that they are ever so slowly losing their grip of ignorance on the subject). I mean this is the political way (or dare I say the conservative way).. hold up the advancement of society because of a righteous holier than thou attitude.
Eventually we'll move on with this global warming (or whatever the f*ck you want to call it)thing and start to come up with good solutions. But we've got to suffer through conservative 'Roadblocks of Ignorance' until we get there. Which will put us (hmmm in this case I'd say at least 10-15 years behind, maybe longer). It is the America way... even more so these days becayse we have a dunderhead for a president that gives voice to these ignorant types who are content for America to mire in the muck.
I'm glad to see Newt Gingrich getting involved. It is a big step toward heading in the right direction. I'm sure it pisses of Rush Limbaugh, but screw him he's a moron. Somebody like Newt coming out and saying we do need to start taking this seriously and become proactive will instantly change the minds of many conservatives. They listen to their leaders... sadly even if their leader is a conservative pea-brained corporate puppet like George W. Bush.
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Post by bucketochicken on Apr 30, 2008 13:53:47 GMT -6
Terrific post, ig.
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Post by NOTTHOR on Apr 30, 2008 14:05:25 GMT -6
1) How many more lives would have been saved? 2) It's the same thing with global warming or 'climate change' (the word they seem to now be okay with giving it being that they are ever so slowly losing their grip of ignorance on the subject). I mean this is the political way (or dare I say the conservative way).. hold up the advancement of society because of a righteous holier than thou attitude. 1) None. Everyone dies someday. Probably, the result was actually net negative. Someone who lived due to an organ transplant has no doubt killed another person who would still be alive but for that organ transplant. 2) Demagogues say "We don't have time to think about, we just need to react, we just need to do something now." Failure to reflect and weigh consequences often leads to shitty legislation. See, e.g. the PATRIOT Act. See, e.g., Hitler's reign. Hitler was a big fan of the "we must act now" policy. Had we taken the Chicken Littles' advice about global cooling 30 years ago and started a giant carbon dioxide factory, do you libs think we'd be better or worse off today w/r/t "global warming?" |
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Post by NotMyKid on Apr 30, 2008 14:08:36 GMT -6
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Post by MoHawk on Apr 30, 2008 14:58:59 GMT -6
Yes. Sadly, the destruction of our planet has become a political issue. Which means doing something about it will take 10 times as long because politicians and people on the wrong side of the issue will bicker about it forever. Same thing holding up stem cell research. People on the wrong side of the issue are always holding things up. Eventually after years of stupidity, they will come to accept that they were on the wrong side and society will start to advance. Did you know that conservative people (especially extreme types like iowafan1) used to be against researching organ transplants because it isn't what God would want (as if they have the slightest f*cking clue) and they did their damndest to hold up advancements in organ transplanting. Now, of course they've abandoned that absolutely incorrect position and organ transplants are common and save many thousands of lives every year. What if they weren't so damn ignorant from the get go? How many more lives would have been saved? How much farther would society be in this scientific area? It's the same thing with global warming or 'climate change' (the word they seem to now be okay with giving it being that they are ever so slowly losing their grip of ignorance on the subject). I mean this is the political way (or dare I say the conservative way).. hold up the advancement of society because of a righteous holier than thou attitude. Eventually we'll move on with this global warming (or whatever the f*ck you want to call it)thing and start to come up with good solutions. But we've got to suffer through conservative 'Roadblocks of Ignorance' until we get there. Which will put us (hmmm in this case I'd say at least 10-15 years behind, maybe longer). It is the America way... even more so these days becayse we have a dunderhead for a president that gives voice to these ignorant types who are content for America to mire in the muck. I'm glad to see Newt Gingrich getting involved. It is a big step toward heading in the right direction. I'm sure it pisses of Rush Limbaugh, but screw him he's a moron. Somebody like Newt coming out and saying we do need to start taking this seriously and become proactive will instantly change the minds of many conservatives. They listen to their leaders... sadly even if their leader is a conservative pea-brained corporate puppet like George W. Bush. Not that you don't have a point expos, but, do the scientists in that piece who are dissenting have no valid opinion? All I'm saying is I have ZERO idea about anything when it comes to science. I'm willing to listen to reason...I tend to fall on the side of favoring stem cell research. I'm just not completely convinced on global warming. Do I think our "carbon footprints" are causing damage? Certainly. But, just how much damage, I think, is debatable. |
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Post by GhostMod 5000 on Apr 30, 2008 16:14:06 GMT -6
1) How many more lives would have been saved? 2) It's the same thing with global warming or 'climate change' (the word they seem to now be okay with giving it being that they are ever so slowly losing their grip of ignorance on the subject). I mean this is the political way (or dare I say the conservative way).. hold up the advancement of society because of a righteous holier than thou attitude. 1) None. Everyone dies someday. Probably, the result was actually net negative. Someone who lived due to an organ transplant has no doubt killed another person who would still be alive but for that organ transplant. 2) Demagogues say "We don't have time to think about, we just need to react, we just need to do something now." Failure to reflect and weigh consequences often leads to shitty legislation. See, e.g. the PATRIOT Act. See, e.g., Hitler's reign. Hitler was a big fan of the "we must act now" policy. Had we taken the Chicken Littles' advice about global cooling 30 years ago and started a giant carbon dioxide factory, do you libs think we'd be better or worse off today w/r/t "global warming?" Way to very subtly associate environmentalists with Nazis. It is good to know I can take your opinion on this matter seriously. Now honestly, what is worse, doing the wrong thing too early, or doing the right thing too late? Now, eventually, we are going to have to look for other forms of energy besides digging shit up and burning it. That is not debatable, because it will run out soon. Therefore, it is in the best interests of this country to explore alternative forms of energy. If we wait too long, our oil based economy will collapse, and this country will go the path of Rome. I do not want to see that happen, because I am rather fond of this country. |
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Post by NOTTHOR on Apr 30, 2008 16:28:49 GMT -6
Coal will run out soon, too, Ghost. Don't believe me? Just read Malthus. There's plenty of oil, and when that becomes less commercially viable, there is a huge quantity of oil shale that can be used, too. Two things that I have the utmost confidence in are the ingenuity of the human mind and desire to profit coming together to solve damn near any problem humans encounter.
Notice that I'm not saying that environmentalists have a monopoly on the liberal fascist technique of action without debate or reflection. I included the jammed down provisions of the PATRIOT Act in my example of bad legislation that comes from "instant action." America's system of legislative debate and system of checks and balances is what allegedly separates us from tyranny.
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Post by GhostMod 5000 on Apr 30, 2008 17:27:31 GMT -6
I acctually coal was included as shit we dig out of the ground and burn.
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Post by mattahawk on Apr 30, 2008 19:49:48 GMT -6
I as a republican, more or less, have to say that there has to be something to global warming. 6 miles of ice drop off the glaciers up north each year. I think I heard that like 20-30 years ago it was 1 mile every year. They said eventually it will raise the sea level to the point of flooding. That is some scary shit either way you look at it, whether you believe in global warming or not.
As far as stem cell research I am all for that too. Bince the only way I am going to get a new kidney is if I grow my own. But there are conditions to that. I don't think that it should come from aborted babies, bince I am against abortion. I also feel it should come from placenta and only IF the parents agree. Seeing as how they have made improvements in stem cell research with the cells they currently have, if they can just get even a few more a year that should help.
I guess this is the Independent side of me.
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Post by Norm "racerhawk" Parker on Apr 30, 2008 20:36:53 GMT -6
Yes. Sadly, the destruction of our planet has become a political issue. Which means doing something about it will take 10 times as long because politicians and people on the wrong side of the issue will bicker about it forever. Same thing holding up stem cell research. People on the wrong side of the issue are always holding things up. Eventually after years of stupidity, they will come to accept that they were on the wrong side and society will start to advance. Did you know that conservative people (especially extreme types like iowafan1) used to be against researching organ transplants because it isn't what God would want (as if they have the slightest f*cking clue) and they did their damndest to hold up advancements in organ transplanting. Now, of course they've abandoned that absolutely incorrect position and organ transplants are common and save many thousands of lives every year. What if they weren't so damn ignorant from the get go? How many more lives would have been saved? How much farther would society be in this scientific area? It's the same thing with global warming or 'climate change' (the word they seem to now be okay with giving it being that they are ever so slowly losing their grip of ignorance on the subject). I mean this is the political way (or dare I say the conservative way).. hold up the advancement of society because of a righteous holier than thou attitude. Eventually we'll move on with this global warming (or whatever the f*ck you want to call it)thing and start to come up with good solutions. But we've got to suffer through conservative 'Roadblocks of Ignorance' until we get there. Which will put us (hmmm in this case I'd say at least 10-15 years behind, maybe longer). It is the America way... even more so these days becayse we have a dunderhead for a president that gives voice to these ignorant types who are content for America to mire in the muck. I'm glad to see Newt Gingrich getting involved. It is a big step toward heading in the right direction. I'm sure it pisses of Rush Limbaugh, but screw him he's a moron. Somebody like Newt coming out and saying we do need to start taking this seriously and become proactive will instantly change the minds of many conservatives. They listen to their leaders... sadly even if their leader is a conservative pea-brained corporate puppet like George W. Bush. Great post. |
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Post by iammrhawkeyes on May 1, 2008 8:29:20 GMT -6
File this one under: Let's Cover Our Asses! or Whoops! The quotes from the scientists are just priceless. It's really warming, we just can't feel it. I'm serial. www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aU.evtnk6DPo&refer=worldwideAverage temperatures in areas such as California and France may drop over the next 10 years, influenced by colder flows in the North Atlantic, said a report today by the institution based in Kiel, Germany. Temperatures worldwide may stabilize in the period.
The study was based on sea-surface temperatures of currents that move heat around the world, and vary from decade to decade. This regional cooling effect may temporarily neutralize the long- term warming phenomenon caused by heat-trapping greenhouse gases building up around the earth, said Richard Wood, a research scientist at the Met Office Hadley Centre, a U.K. provider of environmental and weather-related services.
``Those natural climate variations could be stronger than the global-warming trend over the next 10-year period,'' Wood said in an interview. ``Without knowing that, you might erroneously think there's no global warming going on.'' The Leibniz study, co-written by Noel Keenlyside, a research scientist at the institute, will be published in the May 1 issue of the journal Nature.
``If we don't experience warming over the next 10 years, it doesn't mean that greenhouse-gas warming is not with us,'' Keenlyside said in an interview. ``There can be natural fluctuations that may mask climate change in the short term.'' Hey expos, the term climate change wasn't coined by the conservatives. It was introduced by the Anthropogenic Dunderheads who realized that the temperature was not always going up. |
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Post by Iowafan1 on May 1, 2008 9:19:05 GMT -6
You got that right. You can absolutely count on the libs never admitting that they are dead wrong. It is as if they have completely neglected history. They will probably tell you that disappearance of the ice age was caused by man too. PETA will be here any second now claiming we killed the dinosaurs too.
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Post by socal on May 1, 2008 12:02:38 GMT -6
You got that right. You can absolutely count on the libs never admitting that they are dead wrong. It is as if they have completely neglected history. They will probably tell you that disappearance of the ice age was caused by man too. PITA will be here any second now claiming we killed the dinosaurs too. Would you care to provide proof of "the libs" being dead wrong? ....and you've got one talking point wrong. It's the conservatives that believe humans lived with the dinosaurs & obviously killed them off - as they didn't seem to hitch a ride with Noah. |
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Post by bucketochicken on May 1, 2008 13:07:46 GMT -6
Wow. Someone's irony gland is working overtime...
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Post by Master Blaster on May 1, 2008 15:25:12 GMT -6
1. It is PETA, not PITA.
2. The jury is far from being out on global warming. Their are plenty of scientists who associate the rising temperatures to an increase in sun activity. Also bear in mind that we have been here a relatively short time in the grand scheme of things.
3. The real stance to me to take here is to be for cleaning up the environment and living cleaner and better simply because it is the responsible thing to do for us and our kids. What a lot of people don;t acknowledge is the large strides that we have made since the crying indian commercials of the 70's. We are getting much better, but that does not get the press. That and the fact that world population continues to grow.
4. Another question to ask is what are you willing to give up and do to support the effort besides bitch that we need to do something? Most are quick to complain and slow to act. I have watched how much the government has stopped/ slowed the discharging of garbage and oily waste from ships for example. Or the strides we have made in using solar power on NASNI. Or policies on conserving resources. Or hundreds of other efforts to try to be more cost effective and therefore more conservative. I am very tired of hearing the ignorant government doesn't care a bit crap. Liberals need to take an honest look vice one through rose colored glasses. Come work here with me day to day and I'll show you more than a couple of innovations we have done to lower our impact. Many at the expense of making our Sailors work longer hours or deal with more crap to get a job done than in times past.
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Post by NOTTHOR on May 1, 2008 16:22:12 GMT -6
4. Another question to ask is what are you willing to give up and do to support the effort besides bitch that we need to do something? Amen broski. I've spent a helluva long time in a place that uses about half the energy per capita of the US. It sucks. Americans will not tolerate such a standard of living, like going to work in a crowded ass commuter train, having at most one car per family, walking more than a mile a day, riding a bike to the grocery store, keeping the house so cold you can see your breath in the winter and not running the A/C except to cool a room from 100 to 85 degrees in the summer. Cutting emissions could be done overnight through heavy handed legislation and massive taxes on energy, but people would be up in arms about the diminution in the standard of living. Of course, you can always maintain your standard of living, toss a few "green" lightbulbs in your lamps and send Al Gore's carbon offset scheme a few hundred bucks a year and call yourself an environmentalist. |
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Post by GhostMod 5000 on May 1, 2008 16:33:38 GMT -6
You will notice that I rarely bitch about it, because I have been doing my small part for years.
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Post by Iowafan1 on May 1, 2008 22:07:41 GMT -6
You will notice that I rarely bitch about it, because I have been doing my small part for years. Do you realize how many people you harmed with the carbon spewed into the air when you grilled those turkey burgers all the while totally and greedily wasting unnecessary electrical power to watch your baby bears get their asses handed to them? Shameful. Throw your TV away today and save the earth. And, by the way, how exactly did that TV and those turkey burgers make their way to your home? Did you walk from Best Buy and the grocery store carrying them?....or did you selfishly use a vehicle to transport them? I'm for saving turkeys too. |
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Post by GhostMod 5000 on May 2, 2008 5:32:25 GMT -6
Troll effort: 4/10
I expect a little better from you.
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Post by lpcalihawk on May 2, 2008 8:16:03 GMT -6
You will notice that I rarely bitch about it, because I have been doing my small part for years. Do you realize how many people you harmed with the carbon spewed into the air when you grilled those turkey burgers all the while totally and greedily wasting unnecessary electrical power to watch your baby bears get their asses handed to them? Shameful. Throw your TV away today and save the earth. And, by the way, how exactly did that TV and those turkey burgers make their way to your home? Did you walk from Best Buy and the grocery store carrying them?....or did you selfishly use a vehicle to transport them? I'm for saving turkeys too. The carbon spewed from the shit that comes out of your mouth offsets any good people on this board do. Please provide an example of where you admitted being wrong on this board.....bince you claim the "libs" never do it. |
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Post by Norm "racerhawk" Parker on May 2, 2008 9:50:23 GMT -6
You will notice that I rarely bitch about it, because I have been doing my small part for years. Do you realize how many people you harmed with the carbon spewed into the air when you grilled those turkey burgers all the while totally and greedily wasting unnecessary electrical power to watch your baby bears get their asses handed to them? Shameful. Throw your TV away today and save the earth. And, by the way, how exactly did that TV and those turkey burgers make their way to your home? Did you walk from Best Buy and the grocery store carrying them?....or did you selfishly use a vehicle to transport them? I'm for saving turkeys too. As I noted before, I ride public transportation, I ride my bike, and when I do drive, I am spewing somewhat less carbon because of my ULEV 30+ mpgcar. bince you're on the sarcasm wagon, what are you doing to help the earth's environment? Do you not think that it is wise to live cleaner, and perhaps REDUCE DEPENDENCE ON FOREIGN OIL. Don't you HATE TO BE DEPENDENT ON THE ARABS, IAFAN? |
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Post by Norm "racerhawk" Parker on May 2, 2008 9:52:49 GMT -6
You got that right. You can absolutely count on the libs never admitting that they are dead wrong. It is as if they have completely neglected history. They will probably tell you that disappearance of the ice age was caused by man too. PETA will be here any second now claiming we killed the dinosaurs too. None of us have said anything of the sort. We simply are believing the majority of scientists at this point. I should admit that I also "believe" in natural selection, and that the dinosaurs lived in a different time period from humans as well. I've asked others on this board, but never received any response, so I'll ask you. Why are you so convinced that global warming does not exist? Please enlighten us. |
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Post by Iowafan1 on May 2, 2008 10:04:17 GMT -6
Ghostie and lpcalihawk, you can both get on my left nut. I have no problem with admitting when I was wrong. I am a pretty humble guy. I have been wrong at least my fair share of times. I wasn't always the brilliant guy I am now (it's f'ing humor moron). You guys just have thin skin. You love to dish it out but having a problem taking it. My biggest issue is with the following facts:
Fact #1: There are people who preach that global warming exists. I don't think anyone on this board will dispute that those people exist.
Fact #2: There are people who preach that global warming was created by man. I don't think anyone on this board will dispute that those people exist either.
Fact #3: I don't believe global warming exists and there are many others like me that don't believe it either. Again, I don't think anyone on this board will dispute that people with my beliefs exist.
Fact #4: People included in #1 and #2 choose to how they live their lives.
Fact #5: People included in #3 also choose how they live their lives.
Fact #6 is where the problem comes up.
Fact #6: All people, on average, from facts #1-#5 live their lives the very same way. We all drive cars and trucks. We all barbecue with charcoal, wood or gas. We all buy clothes. We all read the newspaper. We all use air conditioners and heaters. Even the degrees in which we lives are lives are, on average, the very same. My problem is that people preaching man made global warming to me live their lives no differently than I do. Those of us who buy small cars and trucks do so for one reason and one reason only. The monetary costs of driving larger vehicles. Kennedy spouts off preaching of wind power, yet won't allow it in his back yard. Al Gore and John Edwards preach global warming and the need for energy savings, yet continue to fly in their own private jets and live in gargantuan mansions. One day, the cost of fuel may get high enough for me to buy a smaller vehicle. In the meantime, you don't see me preaching for anyone to do what I'm not willing to do.
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